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Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.

Mantra Tattva - whats in a mantra ?

dirty hari - Sat, 06 Mar 2004 05:44:30 +0530
In various discussions from various schools of thought we often hear
of the concept of the necessity of recieving the gayatri mantras
from a preceptor in a lineage of mahants
in order to delve into or recieve the proper result desired,i.e such and
such rasa.

Various noted personalities like Narayana Maharaja have gotten a lot
of flack for this concept of the necessity of gayatri mantras due to
the mantra itself being necessary for the higher revelations.

this is correct ? yes ?

Where is this supported other then commentaries ?

My understanding is that the mantra is a tool for meditation,
the revelations do not come from the mantra itself,
by that i mean Bhagavan is the revelator and independent
of rules concerning mantras,Bhagavan is revealing or not
with mantra or not,mantra is subordinate to Bhagavan and therefore
mantra is empty words unless Bhagavan participates in the mantra,
no chain of command or person has the ability to empower a mantra
as the empowering is not like a magical incantation rather it is the supreme
manifesting to the sadhaka by divine choice regardless of any other

This concept of the necessity of specific mantras from specific sources
to realize a desired goal negates the role of the divine will, the divine will
is made subordinate to a formulaic method of revelation,by that i mean
the divine will is the only thing which can reveal or hide desired
jnana or experience,the formulaic idea is that of the magical incantation
which puts the power of the mantra squarely in the hands of the sadhaka,
he will recieve the desired goal if he follows the methodology given and will
not recieve the same without that process.

This is a magical or gnostic approach to the divine,the belief that the divine will
can be controlled by our actions or inactions is the essence of the
magical ,mystic or gnostic path which posits our ability to control our destiny
based on manipulation of words or concepts within our mind.

My understanding is that all revelation is divine providence,regardless of any attempt utilizing mantra or tantra or any other esoteric tool, the reality
is that we exist under the will of the divine desire,in this concept any mantra
or sadhana is essentially unnecessary if the divine will desires,or conversely
necessary if the divine will desires,the basic premise is that there are
no absolute rules for revelation ,revelation is independent
of all forms or systems utilizing the ascending process prescribed in any
methodology of any school.

A mantra is not an independent thing,it has no power for anything in and of itself
regardless of it's source or complimentry jnana,a mantra is nothing more
then a tool for the use of the divine and the effectiveness of the mantra
is not within the mantra or anything attached to it,the effectiveness is nothing
more then divine will outside of the control of a mantra,guru,or any form of
knowledge we associate with the mantra or guru.

so those who insist of the necessity of a mantra,any mantra are
not seeing as I do, I believe the mantra is like a knock at a door,
the people inside may allow you entrance or not it is out of your hands,
at the same time they may send an invitation out to anyone they choose
even if those people are unaware of the address ,the mantra is not in control,
the guru is not in control,we are not in control.

Of course there are those who will insist that the mantra is non different
then the divine ,with them I differ, the mantra is a tool to access the divine
but the divine is not subordinate to the mantra ,just like if you
insist that the mantra must be empowered by a guru I also insist
that the mantra is not empowered itself but rather it is the divine
will that is the relevant potency,being an autocrat and supremely
independent the divine will can do as it likes and all formulas
are subordinate to this conception.

comments ?
RasaMrita - Sat, 06 Mar 2004 06:34:11 +0530

Where do you get all these from? Who is this divine will, this bhagavan? What is going on?

If you can not give evidence (sastra) you are beyond me.

Madhava - Sat, 06 Mar 2004 07:11:15 +0530
What do Jiva and Visvanatha insist in their writings?
betal_nut - Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:22:52 +0530
The five angas of diksa are?
1. sambandha
2. nyasa
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?

Madhava - Sat, 06 Mar 2004 08:46:41 +0530
In which sampradaya would that be?
betal_nut - Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:03:12 +0530
I don't know.
I read things here and there and don't always take note of the website address.
betal_nut - Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:05:54 +0530
Actually, it's in Gaudiya Sampradaya, which line I don't recall.

Nyasa, Sambandha, Sharanagati, Something else and Atma-nivedanam.
Madhava - Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:13:12 +0530
I think they teach something like that in GVS. However, the question still remains, from which sampradaya did they pick this up from?