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Gaudiya Discussions Archive » PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY
Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.

Swakiyavaad -

betal_nut - Wed, 03 Mar 2004 03:43:35 +0530
My understanding of why Jeev Goswami wrote in favour of swakiyavaad was that he did so for others, but that his internal mood was of, and for parakiya. Is that correct?

Also, why is it at Gaudiya Grantha Mandir all you get are tranliterations but no translation? sad.gif
How are we to understand anything?
Madhava - Wed, 03 Mar 2004 04:09:28 +0530
That's the general idea.

There's a topic on "why aren't there any translations" in the GGM forums. Basically, we are primarily concerned with making the originals available. If there are no good originals, nobody can translate anything. When the originals are available, anyone can translate.
dirty hari - Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:57:18 +0530
what ?
so know we have the ability to throw out what jiva said as being for outsiders
and you are in the position to speak for his inner ideal ?

well, aren't we special.

a closer examination will show there is no contradiction in his words and
other realized acaryas.

he stated "in tattva siddhanta " the gopis cannot be parakiya,they
are the same as Krsna.

the caveat "tattva siddhanta" makes all the dfference.

there are two considerations when hearing rasa lila from bonafide sources,
first is the external lila or what you see and hear,in that the gopis are parakiya
the second is "tattva siddhanta" the inner reality of that external lila.

For example Krsna and Balarama are one and same person in different
personas,in the external lila they behave as brothers,in the internal
"tattva siddhanta" they cannot be brothers they are one and the same person.

the same for the gopis,they are all expansions of Sri Radha who is identical
with Krsna,the gopis are Krsna,in the external lila they have relationships
with Krsna and one another as if they are different persons so in that
way they can be parakiya, in the inner reality or "tattva siddhanta" they
are all one and the same supreme person,they cannot be parakiya
because they are the same person.

you don't have to manufacture some kind of mood of jiva to explain
his seemingly contradictory words from others, he explains
the difference in terms of what is real and what is lila ,what is absolute
truth and what is relative truth,what is seen and heard compared
to what is the real situation.
dirty hari - Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:17:00 +0530
this is from jiva

"Nija-rupataya kalabhih. The gopis are Krsna's power. They cannot be parakiya in
the eyes of tattva-siddhanta. They are the same as Krsna. They are the power of
Krsna. They are also not the wives of any gopas, cowherd men, of Vrndavana.
They are all beloved of Krsna, and they are not different from Him. Thus, by
tattva, they are svakiya. (Sva means 'own' and kiya means sampatti, wealth.)
This means they are of Krsna, Krsna's own, and they are His power."

he makes it quite clear,they are beloved of Krsna and are non different from Him,
internal reality and external reality,swakiya and parakiya at the same time.

its not that parakiya is the inner truth it is the external truth the truth
of the lila or the experience of life in vraja,there the gopis are parakiya,
that is lila,but in reality there is another vision.

just like in lila Krsna is taken care of by His parents, that is external reality,
internal reality is that Krsna is taking care of His parents and everyone else
because he is the substance and controller of reality,so in the inner reality
or tattva siddhanta Krsnas parents aren't really taking care of Krsna He is taking
care of them,in the lila they are taking care of Him.

so the gopis are parakiya in lila but swakiya in absolute truth or tattva siddhanta,
they are Krsna so they cannot ever be seperate from Krsna therefore
there is no possibilty of parakiya,in lila they manifest as different people
only in that reality is there parakiya rasa,it is not absolute truth it is relative
to the lila, just lika a one man play on broadway,one person plays all the roles,
in the play he relates to himself in different characters for the benefit
of entertaining the audience,the reality is that the show doesn't change
him into different people ,it is for the the enjoyment of the audience
that the illusion is created.
Madhava - Thu, 04 Mar 2004 01:31:14 +0530
No comments directed towards other participants. Just stick to the siddhanta. We've seen enough of the other brand of comments from you over the last year or so all over the cyberspace.

Could you please supply references, and preferably the Sanskrit, for whatever is attributed to Jiva?
dirty hari - Thu, 04 Mar 2004 05:40:35 +0530
you are right,i am a rascal .

as far as sanskarit,well i'm just po white trash,i aint got no lurnin,
this is the only sanskarit i be knowin

om ajnana-timirandhasya jnananjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah
Priya - Thu, 04 Mar 2004 06:28:59 +0530
QUOTE(dirty hari @ Mar 3 2004, 04:10 PM)
you are right,i am a rascal .

as far as sanskarit,well i'm just po white trash,i aint got no lurnin,
this is the only sanskarit i be knowin

om ajnana-timirandhasya jnananjana-salakaya
caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah

Does ya'll leeve ina trailer park? tongue.gif

You are quick! That was funny! biggrin.gif