World Trade Center Prophecy -

WTC PROPHECY IN THE "SCIENCE OF SELF REALIZATION!"


When the American becomes too much luxurious, they'll not be able to defend their country. Then it will be finished.

Prabhupada: Yes. (japa) Now England is finished. There are aristocrat type statues now rolling on the ground. Who takes care? Their, their Lennon? Lennon, John Lennon and George Harrison, they are purchasing big, big palaces. (japa)
Hari-sauri: All the aristocracy, they just go out to work like anyone else.
Prabhupada: The lords are roaming on the street. I have seen many lords. They're ordinary.... Even they haven't got car. The Queen also, just like ordinary, common man. Royal family.
Ramesvara: One day America will be poor like that also.
Prabhupada: Yes. Luxury leads to poverty. When the American becomes too much luxurious, they'll not be able to defend their country. Then it will be finished.
Ramesvara: That is the fear even now, that America has lost their fighting spirit against the Communists.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, yes. Yes. Vietnam. It is proof. When the Vietnam is attacked, American soldiers, they began to fly, flee away, became afraid. Naturally. They were not soldiers. They have no fighting spirit. By force they have been made soldiers. Let them take to Krsna consciousness. America will be saved. (japa)

[S.P. Morning Walk, June 11, 1976, Los Angeles]


The atomic bomb is already there, and
as soon as the next war breaks out, all
their skyscrapers and everything
else will be finished


We therefore invite the most intelligent men in the world to understand this Krsna conscious philosophy and try to distribute it all over the world. We have now come to these African countries, and I invite all intelligent Africans to come and understand this philosophy and distribute it. You are trying to develop yourselves, so please develop spiritually, for spiritual development is sound development. Don't imitate the Americans and Europeans, who are living like cats and dogs. Such civilizations built on the consciousness of sense gratification cannot stand. The atomic bomb is already there, and as soon as the next war breaks out, all their skyscrapers and everything else will be finished. Try to understand this from the real viewpoint of human life, the spiritual viewpoint. This is what this Krsna consciousness movement is about. We therefore request you to try to understand this philosophy. Thank you very much.

[S.S.R. Chapter Seven Exploring the Spiritual Frontier]

?

Where is the mention of terrorists flying a couple commercial jets into the twin towers?

That whole anti-capitalism stance is overtly fanatical and ultimately damaging to our movement, IMO. Yes, there are inequities that need to be addressed, and yes, the politicians are for the most part crooked. However, the problems need to be fixed with some forethought and some careful diplomacy. An outright attack like that on the powers that be will only result in some form of retaliation.

Let someone quote me in twenty years:

"And behold, as the decades unfold,
in the Northern continent a great calamity shall arise,
thousands missing kith and kin,
the curse of the machines."

Sounds awfully Nostradamus-ish.

My brother is really big on the Biblical prophecies in the Book of Revelations. He believes he is seeing signs of the Apocalypse all around him. Hopefully he is wrong about it. We don't need no Armageddon, just Harinam (and lila) kirton!

In some religions throughout the ages one would observe a similar pattern in them, viz. the religious leaders would sometimes propagate apocalyptic messages to the masses. It goes back as far as the roots of Christianity wherein John the Baptist was preaching the end of the world and a new kingdom ushered in by a messiah. The problem with this approach for gaining converts is that the world doesn't end. Sometimes it is seen that the religious followers terminate but not the world. I've observed that such apocalyptic thinking tends to make people isolate themselves and not intergrate within society. They don't get real jobs and try to become normal people but rather get by in life, sometimes living trashy lives, waiting for the big catastrophy to happen.

9/11 was a tragic disaster, but there have been others much worse in recent history. I have recently seen a few films: "The Grey Zone" and "The Pianist" both based on the exterminations of Jews, Slavs, Poles, ect WWII, and "Enemy at the Gate" based on the German attack on Stalingrad, Russia during WWII. Would not these be considered signs that the world is ending? The war ended, the cities were rebuilt, and those that suffered tried to patch their lives up. Life still goes on.

I wonder why this is so considering that it is a relatively "false" concept. And while we're on the subject, what do you think about the "10,000-year Golden Age" in Gaudiya tradition that was supposed to have been ushered in by Mahaprabhu? Apparently the whole justification for a 10,000-year GA is based on a passage in the Brahma-vaivarta Purana (?) and there has been some mention of a "prema yuga" in the writings of Kanupriya Gosvami.

Is there anything in our scriptures about it though, like CC, CB, etc? I think there is some mention in Caitanya-mangala I'm not sure.

Oh something just occurred to me Radhapadaji. You say that the apocalyptic scenario of Judao-Christian religions is "false" because the world doesn't "end" as such, but what about the fact that after this supposed GA of Mahaprabhu's the world heads back on the Kali-yuga course into practical oblivion?

Some years ago I remember one "devottee" told me that Srila Gora Govinda Swami cited Kanupriya Goswami's prem yuga prediction and said that in 1996 or something, some great bhakta would travel the world and inaugurate prem everywhere and the whole world would be drowned in prem (she emphasised that the whole world would become manjaris). Has anyone heard likewise?

Edited to prevent aparadha.

Salvage one pertinent comment:

Edited to prevent aparadha.

Who is Kanupriya Goswami? What is his history? When was he living?

You can take a look at an earlier discussion we were having. He was discussed there more or less, as well as his disciple Fakir Mohan das.

The chosen ones of the book of revelations have a sign on their forehead. Your brother might be interested to know about your tilak.

The thing with predictions is that there is always enough happening in the world to verify the outcome. That is also true in personal predictions.

"Yavana" is a term that was once commonly used in India for "muslim". So far how many muslims have actually become Vaishnavas?





At that time there were no hippies in England who had sufficient time on their hands to join a "movement'.





What is "dangerous" about wanting to improve one's education and civilization and bring it up to date with the rest of the world?





How do we know that "they could not do anything"? Are we to judge by external numbers only? Could it be possible that perhaps one, even if only one, person that they met eventually became a shuddha vaishnava - in a quiet way? Perhaps that one (or more) person is serving my Swamini in the kunjs of Goloka Braj right now as I sit here and read how her gurudeva "could not do anything".




Let us take into consideration the social climate of the 1960's that Swami Prabhupada was met with when he came to American shores. I believe 99% of his followers were from the "hippie camp", not the intelligentsia of society, nor the well-settled, family oriented, religious and responsible everyday hardworking middle-class American. As Swami Prabhupada himself said in his article on Hinduism, "No Christian gentleman will be interested in changing his faith from Christian to Hindu. Similarly, no Hindu gentleman of culture will be ready to change to the Christian faith. Such changing is for men who HAVE NO PARTICULAR SOCIAL STATUS.





Well, here it is 2004, how do we measure up so far?







A Gaudiya Vaishnava with a "yavana" title!? FAKIR! What is the world coming to?
I predict a set-back to the Prem Yuga wherein South-Asian Vaishnavas with Muslim prefixes to their names will all become Sufis before 2086. After that, for ten years from 2086 to 2096, Vaishnavism will still have some pull on them, but from 2096 onwards they will be firmly established in the Naqshabandhi order.

There is a book by B. Hridaya Bon Swami, "My two years in England and Germany" (or similar), with endless references, letters of recommendation, letters of gratitude by all kinds of intellectuals etc. The major indologists of the time, big shots of Germany that are still main references today, have gotten introduction to an understanding of the different tattwas, Vishnu-tattwa etc, thru Swami Bon, and they acknowledge that with gratitude.

There is one great personality that has come indirectly thru Swami Bon, that is Walther Eidlitz, a poeta laureata of Vienna, Austria, who had traveled to India around 1938 in search of a guru, had gone to the Himalayas, and was then detained as the war began, met Sadananda das (Dr. Schulze of Leipzig, Germany, who came thru Swami Bon) in an Indian concentration camp. To survive the horrors of the camp the resident mostly intellectuals, jesuits and others, decided to entertain each others with lectures on their specific subjects of specialisation. Thru Sadananda's teaching Walther Eidlitz became a vaishnava, and later returned to Austria and then to Sweden to write a number of books, among them one on the Indian Love of God referring to Vraja lila, and one The Life and Teaching of Krsna-Caitanya, with extensive translations from Caitanya Caritamrita and Caitanya Bhagavata. That book was published in a series of the University of Stockholm, Sweden, I think in 1966. Walther Eidlitz, Vamana das, was highly respected in intellectual circles of German speaking countries (comprising about 110 Million people) and Sweden. Some of his books are available in English, one (A journey to India) published in the U.S. long ago, the remainder by Paramadvaiti Swami, Vrinda Kunj, of Columbia/Germany.

Eidlitz had a large following in Sweden, which unfortunately was later destroyed by Sadananda's fanaticism. A sad story. Walther Eidlitz was like a guru to these people, but Sadananda came to "smash" him that he could not be a guru. Walther Eidlitz was surrendered to Sadananda in total serfdom, unto the level of self-destruction. Walther Eidlitz had used all his connections so that at the University of Basel, Switzerland, one of the oldest Universities in Europe, a special chair was created, and Sadananda was invited to be professor for Gaudiya theology. Sadananda declined. Walther Eidlitz died in 1978, in old age.

At least it can be said that the Gaudiya Vaishnava teaching was around in German and Scandinavian countries long before the advent of Iskcon.

Yes, apparently this Sadananda had it back to front. Rather than worship the Bhagavan feature, he proclaimed the 'Brahman' feature as superior and published his ideas in a book. Actually I can't remember if it was Sadananda or this Eidlitz fellow, but I wouldn't trust either of them if such funny conceptions are going around.

Anyway, to return to the original topic: Is there anything in our scriptures about Mahaprabhu's GA? Is such a thing believed in by traditionalist Vaishnavas? Kanupriya Gosvami's works are worth checking out along these lines, I believe. How much was based on sastra and how much on his own realization, etc. And less aparadha, please.

The original topic, if memory serves, is World Trade Center Prophecy. How about another thread for that one?

I just had to post this!

Perhaps this is the reason why the growth of the Hare Krishna movement has come to a stand-still -- hippies are few and far between these days, and most of the modern sub-cultures are not all that receptive for a message as strongly religious as the message of Swami Prabhupada. The hippies, it seems, were open for anything that rocked.

That letter. NOT funny, ji!

Does anyone besides Gaurasundar see any "aparadha" on this thread?

Yes, it would be interesting to know just how much of these "predictions" are coming from shashtra and just how many are coming from the "realizations" of Sri Kanupriya Goswami. It would alos be interesting to know more of the history of the Goswami, his method of bhajan, and his siddhantic understanding.

There is certainly some apara-dha (unrivaled merit) in this thread. I see it all over the place.

Now, we just need to cook up some hippies to spread the cause. Perhaps we should organize a neo-hippy revolution to once again prepare the soil for spreading the prema-dharma like it was spread in the good old days?

Was that not the side-topic of the thread, after all?

Ja Nitai.

Sorry about that. I must be mistaken. Eidlitz may very well have been a nice Vaishnava. I must have been mixing him up with someone else. Sorry for any offence caused.

The next acharya will be the one who has discovered where the next Krishna niche-market lies. Maybe Dirty Hari can get the sex-obsessed into Vaishnava Tantra. Looks like a plan to me. That'll get not just the hippies, but almost anybody who's into a little yogic sex and Indian music. I kind of like the image of topless girls in saris and tilak doing kirtan on downtown street corneers. Bring back real Vedic culture!

It'll probably bring back a percentage of the bloopers, too.

This would infuse life into the KCM, on both sides of the equation, as all the puritans would be energized in their criticism of all those who "pervert" Radha and Krishna lila. Their vira-rasa and virya-juices would boil and this would just get them reciting their Bhagavad Gitas at double even triple volume.

Great debates would ensue and at least someone would be reading the Ujjvala Nilamani, even if this instruction might be neglected:

vartitavyaM zam icchadbhir bhaktavan na tu kRSNavat
ity evaM bhakti-zAstrANAM tAtparyasya vinirNayaH
rAmAdivad vartitavyaM na kvacid rAvaNAdivat
ity eSa mukti-dharmAdi-parANAM naya Iryate

Those who wish for the ultimate auspiciousness should identify as devotees when [reading texts about Krishna's madhura rasa activities] and not as Krishna. This is the ultimate conclusion of the bhakti scriptures. The rule has similarly been established by those seeking liberation and religiosity--follow in Rama's footsteps and never Ravana's. (UN 3.24-25)

I would do it myself, but I am too old a leopard to change my spots any more. Gotta stick to your sva-dharma, I always say.

That is a reference to Kavya Prakasa, by the way, karika 2, commentary.

Vaishnava tantra?
I thought Vaishnava tantra was just regular vaishnava rituals/mantras.
Does it have anything to do with sex also?
I know Sahajiyaism does but that is not vaishnava tantra.... or is it?

At any rate, I think the above ideas are good.
But I think a woman acharya would be more powerful in implementing all of this.
SHAKTI!

Maybe you should team up with our Dirty Sheeva ji. You'd make up a heck of a team.

I'm game if he is.

If you do team up though, I'd appreciate if it took place over at Sheeva ji's place. I fear our audience might just flip out.

I don't think he is ready for that concept just yet. I am still trying to get him to the point where he no longer sees his own brand of Christianity as the only worthwhile path. He used to be very anti-Catholic, basically a reaction to his years of Catechism growing up. Now he is more sympathetic to the Church, although he definitely sees his chosen born again fundamentalist sect as superior.

I visited some hippie communes back in the early 70s. They were chaotic, filthy and not very conducive to anything productive, let alone meaningul sAdhana. The counter culture movement had some high ideals, but little in the way of practical implementation of the same. Of course, it is hard to get much done when you are stoned on marijuana, LSD, mescaline, psilocybin, etc. At some point the party is over, and everyone has to go home and attend to their responsibilites. Otherwise, it leads to severe decadence. Don't get me wrong - I think people need to unwind on occasion. The point is that there has to be some balance. I personally think ISKCON lacked that balance back in the 60s and 70s, and that the hippie approach had a lot to do with that lack.

The positive thing about Catholicism, in my view, is the easier possibility of acceptance of arcana, since they have murtis too, in a way. And the personalism in general, with all these saints, the Holy Mother and all. Even if your brother fought these concepts, he might still have a sense of what that means to have that kind of personal view on reality, isn't it? He may never accept you, but be able to see the bigger picture of where you are going.

cancalam, thats what moderators are.

Right there on the chest of Narayan.

where one gets jewels for her fruit.