Parellels Between Mahaprabhu And Jesus Christ -

Well, as most of us have already heard - the immediate followers of Jesus and the early christians in general did not have a view of Jesus that he was the ONE AND ONLY DIVINE SON OF GOD AND ONE AND ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER. That concept came later through the apostle Paul, hence Paulianity.

Now some are saying that a similar thing happened in regards to Mahaprabhu. That is later followers, the six goswamis in particular, deified Mahaprabhu and made it into a whole doctrine, a fifth sampradaya.

What would be your answer to this?

I'm not trying to be facitious here. I really want to know.

HARE KRISHNA

I don't think the immediate followers of Jesus would disagree that he is A son of God and A good way for attaining God. I don't think anyone in our sampradaya claims that Mahaprabhu is the ONLY INCARNATION and the ONLY WAY for attaining Bhagavat-bhakti. He is very special though.

The tradition, beginning with Svarupa Damodara and other personal associates of Caitanya, was quite unanimous over His divinity. There is no parallel with the situation of Jesus in this regard. Paul never met Jesus in person, while Caitanya's immediate associates did agree on His divinity.

As for the deification of Mahaprabhu after His appearance, I don't suppose it could have been done beforehand. Krishna was deified after His appearance, not before. Was He a popular object of worship in the time preceding His appearance? I don't think Narasimha was deified prior to His appearance either. Dharma follows Bhagavan. yadA yadA hi dharmasya glAnir bhavati bhArata abhyuttaAnaM adharmasya tadAtmAnaM sRjAmyaham.

"The Apostolic Catholic and related Christian worship of Jesus Christ as the Second Person of the Godhead Self-offered for the salvation of the whole universe, is the worship of Baladeva, the original Spiritual Master as Yupa Dhvaja, Who "takes away the sins of the world". Thus the sacramental social body of Christ in Catholicism is related to the mystical social body of Purusha Yupa Dhvaja or Yagna Purusha, and the Eucharist is Lord Jesus Purusha's Maha Prasadam. As the Second Person of the Godhead, He is the Original Spiritual Master and the Savior of all universes. None come to the Father but through, with, in and by Him."

So says Bhakti Ananda Goswami. I've been reading some articles of his today. Couldn't resist a quote.

More of it here.

http://www.saragrahi.org/columns/one/why_t...symbol_of_j.htm

Whether you Believe or not, you gotta' love it for it's daring. I've sat and listened to Him for hours and hours and hours. He speaks of a time before the breakup of the world. It's a beautiful vision, and it most likely's true. It's easier than trying to fit the religions together. They were together. They fell apart. And dust and forgetfulness covered over their original unity. This is just me. There are details, so many details. RadheShyam.

Radha-Krishna and Sankarshana at the Heart of World Monotheism
by Bhakti Ananda Goswami

"For over fifty years, some Jewish scholars have suggested that the Song of Songs Divine Love Tradition is historically related to some 'Mystery School' in the ancient Mediterranean Sea. In the mid 1960s I identified that 'school' as the transcendent monotheism and idealism of Helios (Eli-Yahu) Kouros and Rhoda on the Sacred Rose or Lotus Island (Radha-Padme Dwipa) of Rhodes. All Mediterranean regional monotheism and related high civilization was associated with this religion of Rhoda and Kouros Helios on Their Sacred Isle of Rhodes. Kouros (Krishna) was considered the original form of Helios. As Eros He was the Lord of all hearts, and the Lover of all souls. Psyche, or soul, was considered feminine, or receiver in relation the God, the Origin and Giver of Being."

"the Sacred Rose or Lotus Island (Radha-Padme Dwipa) of Rhodes." God I love this stuff. Vrindavan in the Mediteranean. Tell me more, tell me more.

"Helios / Kouros / Eros / was called Kyrios ‘Lord’. Since the Late Serapean Alexandrian Biblical Greek Eli-as, Kyri-os, and The-os can be identified both with the Hebrew Deity Eli-Yahu and the Greek Monotheists' Deity Heli-us, it is clear that the monotheistic Heli-us of Rhodes is historically the Judeo-Christian Deity Elo-ah, Eli-Yahu or Muslim Allah. This compound Holy Name appears throughout the ancient world wherever the Krishna-Vishnu Godhead is worshiped. For instance in Rome as Sole-us, in Egypt as Hor-us, in India as Harih, Sureh, Harah, Haryah, or Surya (many variants in India), and in Tibet and Japan as Hrih, the seed-mantra name of Amitabha, or Amida Buddha. In each region this Deity was originally worshiped not as a 'solar demigod', but as the Supreme Person, the very spirit of Love, and Lord of the heart."

The whole article here.

http://www.saragrahi.org/columns/one/one1/radha.htm


"In Catholic Christianity, the theology of Shekinah has been preserved in the tradition of the 'hyper dulia' or special veneration of Mary. Mary's ancient 'Bridal Mysticism' related name is the 'Mystical Rose'. Rose or Rhoda in Greek was the original or 'Kore' (Hare) virgin-maiden form of Shekinah venerated throughout the region. Mary has many names and her 'kenosis' or spiritual emptiness / receiver-ness is considered to be the condition which is required for God's Incarnation in the universe and in each soul. 'Bridal' or mystical union with God is not possible without the kenosis of Rhoda-Shekinah-Mary"



RadheShyam! Radhe! Radhe!

Arrgh! Had a hard time getting this far.
What in the world is going on here?

Great googli moogli!

Who said that the sad-goswamis simply deified Mahaprabhu? What was the possible motives and or evidence provided by the folks who made these allegations?

I never heard of this before (though I often cover my ears like one of those Chinese monkeys)
Give names and addresses if possible.

I would need a starting point to be able to answer your non-facitious question O inquisitive little Betal_Nut.

Tell me about it.

So is it Krsna Das Kavirajianity or is Mahaprabhu the first person of the Godhead...the Avatari, descended for the deliverance of the world. Do we believe in the Doctrine of Incarnation, or is our God out of sight, aloof and uninvolved with the world. Or does He only incarnate in our scriptures, as we examine other traditions with a skeptics gaze.
During the time of Maharaja Pariksit, wasn't the whole world considered to be Bharat Varsa. So did Visnu incarnate only in India? And the rest of the world, us Yavanas and Mlecchas, nothing powerful for us? If you examine the Holy Names around the world, you find they are not just similiar, but the same, just pronounced differently, in different tounges. Is this the remnant of an ancient religion that once spread around the entire globe, before the disintegrating effects of Kali Yuga?
Maybe. Anyway, these are good ideas for Gaudia Vaisnavas to contemplate, and especially brahmin/scholars, as they, if they are real, are open-minded and inquisitive about the truth, whever it may lead.
Syam Syam

The continent of Australia separated from the landmass of Asia not less than 50,000 years ago. This landmass was not part of "bharat varsha" 5,000 years ago, even though the Australian aborigines are physically related to Dravidians of south India. The aborigines came to Australia more than 65,000 years ago when Indonesia was a landbridge to Asia. Indonesia became a chain of islands 50,000 years ago.

Bhakti Ananda Gosvami has irately visited these forums before. Apart from that, I find his research and conclusions to be rather alarming. I wonder what his particular approach to spirituality is; is he just a curious researcher who is anxious to see the unity in different forms of spirituality. Is it also possible that the legacy he leaves behind will be the start of yet another heterodoxical Gaudiya sect?

So much for interfaith dialogue!

What is so alarming, Gaurasundara? That the Lord you Love could be the same One who is worshipped in all the Great Traditions. Bhakti Ananda's research is beyond interfaith discussion. He attempts to proves that the religions are one and the same Sanatan Dharma, that the Holy Names are identical. For me that is cause for rejoicing. It relieves the stress of Kali-yuga "us and them" fragmentation, and give a little peak into a time when the world was a more harmonious place, and the seed of Krishna worship was spread over the world.

But us being different from them, is what we've learned to thrive upon, in the Kali-yuga. It is our particular approach to spirituality. It gives definition to our lives; firm borders to live inside of. The orthodox and the heterodox. Does defending this world really bring any happiness, what to speak of prema?

I'm sorry if I'm getting heavy. I'm gonna' breathe. Ahhhh

So I don't think any new movements will arise out of this, but you never know. New movements are always arising. But this information could inform our lives and make it a little easier to live up to what one famous Swami said when he described our mission as being non-sectarian.

Sure, I have no doubt about that. I am just concerned why someone should spend all or most of his time trying to "establish" something that is already know. I mean, if the principle is known then the details hardly matter does it?
All glories to BAG, and if he actually achieves something then that is good.


I did more or less the same thing with Islam and other religions some years ago and I found pretty close parallels. However, in my opinion (and experience) too much obsession with an issue like this almost always leads to complete confusion as regards the path to be followed and one's following of it. I only hope that BAG is secure in his identity as a Gaudiya Vaishnava. It would be a strange event if his research led him to convert to Christianity, for example.

Having said all of that, I tend to disagree with most of his points. It would be interesting to hear the opinions of other religious leaders (Dalai Lama, Pope, etc) on his research.

If someone cares, you may wish to read the two threads in which Bhakti Ananda appeared in the forums a while back, first in the thread on Narasingha Caturdasi and later in a separate thread where he wished to discuss the credibility of his research, which was brought to question.

I guess if it was already known, there wouldn't be such a huge hulabaloo every time the ideas are brought up. Believe me, in the Vaisnava world, those ideas are not well known, or well-recieved.



Bhakti Ananda is quite a devoted soul. It's been ten years since I last law him, but he really impressed me that way. Now his particular path is as a "Catholic Vaishnava", and he doesn't see any incongruities there; in fact I think he sees them as the same, as per his article. It seems like the classic mistake of one who gets too involved in "interfaith", and gets confused. But on him, it works I think, due to his seeing them as one.
I think there are many pitfallls on the path to spiritual attainment, and staying a judgemental neophyte is not at the bottom of the list. If at some point in your devotional career you get a good dose of "Interfaith", well it may be just what the Kavi ordered. Then whatever confusion may arise, also due to being inexperienced, will eventually disipate as you realize for yourself what your path really is. And then you can pursue it in a non-sectarian manner, such that you don't bring universal disdain down upon your tradition.
In my experience, the path isn't quite as simple as vaidi, raganuga, prema, you're there. So many anarthas are curiously disguised within the various teachings and institutions you may encounter and pass through along the way. Recognizing them and moving on is sooo important.
Bhakti Ananda Goswami's scholarly credential's aren't a big issue for me. I'm not one myself, as anyone can see. I get what I get from his writings, but actually I got alot from sitting and listening to him for hours on end. After about hour five it hits me; "O MY GOD, HE'S RIGHT! THE WORLD WAS ONCE COVERED BY ONE DHARMA, AND WHAT WE SEE NOW IS REMNENTS OF THAT ANCIENT TRADITION. That was not something I had previously. But I don't think I could get it by reading his articles. Sitting down listening had that effect.
Hey maybe he doesn't have tangible sources. Maybe, like "Navadvipa Dhama Mahatya" of Bhaktivinoda Thakura, it's a vision donated from above, it's okay, I like visions. Faith is the real substance of things yet unseen.
This is an interesting quote from Jagat.

That's great, the "religious particularity", but if it fraught with chauvanism, then what? Specifically, in this instance, Indian-centric, or Bengali-centric. I catch that abit. Bengal as the center of the spiritual universe. And the rest of the world, mlechas etc., to be preached to, and brought to the Bengali fold. Someone say interfaith, pleaassse.
But then again, if the idea is to enter Krsna lila, then I suppose we'll all be wearing saris soon enough!
Love ya' ......tri