Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.
Jnana and mukti bashing - Why is it done so ferociously?
nabadip - Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:49:16 +0530
I'd like to bring up the question of Krsna's jnana-teaching to Uddhava in the 11th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam. There Sri Krsna teaches pretty much that kind of practice that buddhists teach. What do you think about it? Or is this only in my various editions of the Bhagavatam? Cannot be. Also the Bhagavatam is permeated by teachings in this line of equanimity which is to be had by the practice of meditation... the positive state achievable by a jnani receives a lot of attention there. I wonder if this is the reason why bhakta-teachers slam so much against jnanis. The one single time I heard Sri Ananta das babaji speak, he spoke that bhukti-mukti-bhakti BRS verse a dozen times to his large audience. I personally do not know if many of those babajis really know by experience what the state of mukti (or of jnana) really feels like. But then why is it bashed so much? Perhaps it is dangerous for Indian sadhakas, as Satyanaryan das (new name?) comments, because Indians are floating in an ocean of misery due to family attachment and other things which we do not have that strongly. One single step, and they are free...
Madhava - Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:20:05 +0530
Bhukti and mukti are not bashed as such, the desire for them, as it contradicts the ultimate aspiration of bhakti, is. The verse bhukti-mukti-spRhA yAvat pizAcI hRdi vartate speaks of the aspiration (spRha) for mukti and bhukti as the witch, not bhukti and mukti themselves.
For, tAvad bhakti-sukhasyAtra katham abhyudayo bhavet? How can one truly experience the joy of devotion while the desire for other things resides in the heart?
It is not that if mukti or bhukti come on their own accord, that we cast them away. vairAgyaM phalgu kathyate. As in the prayers of Bilvamangala, muktiH svayaM mukulitAJjalI sevate'smAn, Mukti-devi herself comes to render service to a person who is firmly on the path of bhakti. If they automatically come about, without separate endeavor, there is no harm as long as they do not interfere with our primary objective.
betal_nut - Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:29:03 +0530
Nabadip.... one single step and who are free? INDIANS?
Gaurasundara - Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:25:51 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Jan 28 2004, 08:50 PM)
Bhukti and mukti are not bashed as such, the desire for them, as it contradicts the ultimate aspiration of bhakti, is. The verse bhukti-mukti-spRhA yAvat pizAcI hRdi vartate speaks of the aspiration (spRha) for mukti and bhukti as the witch, not bhukti and mukti themselves.
However, couldn't it also be so that this verse from Yamunacharya..
yadavadhi mama cetah krsna-padaravinde
nava-nava-rasa-dhamanudyata rantum asit
tadavadhi bata nari-sangame smaryamane
bhavati mukha-vikarah sustu nisthivanam ca
"Ever since I have been in the transcendental loving service of Krishna, realizing ever new pleasure in Him, whenever I think of sex pleasure, I spit at the thought and my lips curl with distaste.".. is a condemnation of bhukti? Nari-sanga seems to be the issue here rather than aspiring for it?