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All varieties of devotional topics that don't fit under the other sections of the forums. However, devotionally relevant topics, please - there are other boards for other topics.

causeless mercy - anarpita...

TarunGovindadas - Wed, 14 Jan 2004 23:34:04 +0530
Dear friends,

i just listened to a wonderful patha given by Srila Ananta das Babaji about SriSri RadhaRasaSudhanidhi.

some points i found very encouraging.
they brought light into my heart and deep appreciation for the path of raganuga-bhajan.

at one point Babaji Mahasaya is quoting the famous "anarpita..." -verse from Srila Rupa Goswami.
he (Babaji) explained what actually the causeless mercy of Mahaprabhu consists of:
the gift of manjari-bhava-sadhana, never given before.

Srila Babaji Mahasaya made the point that there is actually NO QUESTION about so-called qualifications for this type of sadhana. causeless mercy by definition requires no qualification. otherwise, what is the point of "causeless"?
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave it freely.

another point Babaji Mahasaya made:
Srila Raghunatha Das Goswami for example, wrote down so much about manjari-bhava-sadhana, also Srila Prabhodhananda Saraswati. why did they do it?
not for them, since they EXPERIENCED what they wrote.
they wrote it for us.

i found these point very encouraging and enlivening.

Jay Sri Radhe!

Openmind - Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:24:57 +0530
Nice thoughts, even though I am not sure where and when Sri Gouranga taught or even mentioned the manjari-sadhana. Of course He spoke about the concept of serving the Divine Couple as a manjari, but I don't remember if He ever gave any particular sadhana for that, apart from the chanting of the Holy Names. I must have missed this point due to my inattentive way of reading, so could you please give the references from Caitanya Caritamrta or Caitanya Bhagavat etc.? Thank you.
Madhava - Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:35:56 +0530
Study his instructions to Das Goswami, the giving of gunja-mala and encouragement for manasi-seva, etc. All in Caitanya Caritamrita.

If it was not manjari-bhava, perhaps you have suggestions on what that unprecedented gift might have been?
Openmind - Thu, 15 Jan 2004 02:41:05 +0530
I never questioned that He gave manjari bhava, I referred to the particular sadhana. The gift can be the Holy Name as well, simply the fact the He gave some wonderful gift does not necessarily refers to a particular sadhana, does it? "Krsna prema pradaya te" - He is giving Krsna-prema, but there are more than one ways to achieve that, I guess, is that not so?
Madhava - Thu, 15 Jan 2004 03:41:21 +0530
He instructed Das Goswami to perform manasi-seva, to chant harinama and to worship Gunja-Giridhari. Das Goswami, as we know, was most explicit in delineating the concept of prayojana in his writings. We are fond of following in his footsteps.
TarunGovindadas - Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:50:29 +0530

not to stir any bad soup:

if the chanting of the Holy Name was the unprecedented gift, then how does this alone relate to the supermost, brilliantly shining rasa ( unnatojjvala)?

i read in another forum that it is enough to sit and chant the Holy Name and wait until the Holy Name mercifully reveals the siddha-deha.

if that works, fine.

but then again, why did the Goswamis and all the other raganuga-acaryas write any books about topics NOT directly related to the Holy Name? (Sri Sri Stavavali, Sri Vilapa Kusumanjali, Sri Radha Rasa Sudhanidhi,....)
then books about the Holy Name would have been sufficient.
by the way NONE of these acaryas ever forbade anyone to read their granthas.

Srila Jiva Goswami clearly mentions the point that chanting and remembering nourish each other.

of course, it is very comfortable to sit for one hour a day and chant some rounds, praying to the Name to reveal everything.

subjectively, thats not what i strive for.

to the anarpita-verse:

it is very important to understand what is that unnatojjvala-rasa, the topmost rasa.
in the lecture i listened to today (the follow up), Babaji Mahasaya elucidated about the gradations within the rasas, coming to the conclusion with different references that we arrive at the manjaris mood as the highest.
so, by only chanting the Holy Name without understanding the goal to achieve, we will arrive nowhere.
of course, if someone is not inclined to manjari-bhava-sadhana, then that is something different. but too often then the reaction from those have been very negative towards manjari-bhava-sadhana. why not just check out what is the goal first?

Jay Sri Radhe

Gaurasundara - Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:24:03 +0530
QUOTE(TarunKishordas @ Jan 15 2004, 12:20 PM)
i read in another forum that it is enough to sit and chant the Holy Name and wait until the Holy Name mercifully reveals the siddha-deha.

if that works, fine.

It doesn't work. If it does, then where and what is the evidence?
Advaitadas - Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:49:21 +0530
Of course the holy name reveals everything in time, but not by blindly chanting without aspiring for any particular feeling. ataeva gopi bhava kori angikara, Ray Ramananda told Mahaprabhu. Accept the feelings of a gopi. Study the literature about the gopis like Stavamala and Stavavali, associate with gopi bhava devotees and live at Gopi bhava places like Radhakund or Vrindavan. Then the holy name will reveal. krishnam smaram janam casya prestham nija samitam - one must have a certain idea which associate of Krishna is one's favorite. Then you chant and the name will reveal.
TarunGovindadas - Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:20:24 +0530

yep, obviously the conversation between Raya Ramananda and Sri Caitanya point to manjari-bhava-sadhana as the ultimate goal.

Advaitadas - Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:42:51 +0530
As far as manjari bhava being the great gift of Mahaprabhu, Rupa Gosvami wrote in his introduction to Bhakti Rasamrita Sindhu : hridi yasya preranaya pravartate....vande caitanya devasya - 'I was inspired from within the heart by Caitanya deva.' In Utkalika Vallari we see Rupa Gosvami revealing full-blown manjari bhava, and how can that be other than through the divine inspiration provided by Caitanya Deva?
Madhava - Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:01:39 +0530
Indeed. And what is the most unique and wonderful aspect in the Gaudiya-sampradaya? Its philosophical conclusions? No. It is the upasana we have. Manjari-bhava upasana. Therefore that must be the foremost and greatest gift of Caitanya.
Madhava - Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:04:05 +0530
QUOTE(Advaitadas @ Jan 15 2004, 04:19 PM)
Of course the holy name reveals everything in time, but not by blindly chanting without aspiring for any particular feeling.

When we say, nAma-cintAmaNI kRSNaH, what does that mean? How does a cintAmaNI work? A desire tree? It gives you what you desire. If you just keep bowing down to the desire tree, "Whooa, whooa, O blessed tree, O blessed tree!", what will the tree give you? However, if you have a very lucid desire in your heart, that desire will be granted.
Madhava - Fri, 16 Jan 2004 02:33:45 +0530
One of the prayers we recite before nama-japa reads as follows:

nAma cintAmaNI rUpaM nAmaiva parama-gatI |
nAmnH parataraM nAsti tasmAn nAma upAsmahe ||

"The name is a wish-fulfilling gem, and name alone is the supreme goal; there is nothing greater than the name. Let us worship that name."

It is not that through smaranam we do away with the name. Rather, through proper sravanam and subsequent smaranam we extract the essence of the name. Without them, how can there be a clear conception of what we desire?
Gaurasundara - Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:16:02 +0530
Some people may argue that since Mahaprabhu descended specificially to taste Radha-bhava, that should be our goal too since we are supposed to follow His example. Yet it is also elaborately explained in Caitanya-caritamrta that Mahaprabhu also tasted manjari-bhava. smile.gif
Madhava - Sat, 17 Jan 2004 23:01:25 +0530
Mahaprabhu is none other than Akhila-rasamrita-murti Sri Krishna. He may taste whatever flavors he desires. We are to serve him in this relish. Not to be aspire for an equal position.