Whatever is left over from the archives of the old Raganuga.Com forums after most of the substantial threads were moved to the relevant areas of the main forums.
Recent threads - [ ex. "new website!" thread ]
TarunGovindadas - Fri, 21 Nov 2003 11:37:34 +0530
[ This post has been removed to preserve a spirit of peace and goodwill in Raganuga Discussions. Please contact the administrator if you wish to retrieve a copy of this post. ]
Rasaraja dasa - Fri, 21 Nov 2003 20:54:44 +0530
Dandavats. All glories to the Vaisnavas.
I tried to access your site and it said that it doesn't exist! I am just besides myself as I feel like I just can’t win. Why do devotees have to be so mean and deceiving? Why is it that we simply can’t get along and be friends? Say nice things about one another and appreciate one another devotion. I came here because the devotees seemed sweet and interested in nurturing one another’s devotional lives and struggles and now this nonsense and offensive thread! I am sorry if I seem over reactive or emotional but I have totally lost it at this point. Let me give you a little background as to why this thread and many of the comments made on this board have totally crushed my devotional creeper and desire to be a Vaisnava…
Two weeks ago I found this site and many wonderful, positive, yet philosophically challenging of the participants. It was great. Devotees challenged one another in their philosophical statements but it was both positive in approach and progressive in discussion.
Then last week I meet this devotee on the street that said he (well, he was dressed in a Sari so I guess I should say she) told me I would achieve Gopi Bhava if I just bought one of his/her incense sticks for $5. I told him I only had $4 on me so he told me to get lost.
So I ran to the ATM to get out money for four sticks (yes, I am THAT greedy
) but by the time I returned he/she was gone.
I was devastated
and just walked. After a few minutes I looked up and there it was: Sri Jagadananda’s Local Sahajiya Dealership
! I ran in and asked about the advertised $9.99 Siddha Deha package. After I bought two packages, again I am greedy
, I went directly to the Sari shop, as I was instructed by the salesman Gopi dasi, and purchased a sari with no choli (he said it works much better that way)
Anyhow, I went home, took a shower, put on some dope sandalwood oil (got to smell fresh
) and finally my new sari. Well before I opened up my box which contained my Siddha Deha package I decided to check my e-mail and AIM to see if anyone wanted to join me
That's when I learned about the Siddha Deha recall. I couldn't believe my eyes
! So I rushed over to the dealership and they were closed and in it's place was some training center called "The Art of Debate - If all else fails just ask "Is XXX babaji the only last remaining vestige of Mahaprabhu's movement?". Anyhow I figured I could get that training for free from His Divine Grace Ksamabuddhi Swami Prabhupada on the web
I was so upset and besides myself with emotion that I ran as fast as I could back home
. Then when I checked Raganuga.com I saw the post on Tarun's new website. I couldn’t believe my luck. The devotee’s were merciful!
So I quickly washed my new Sari (when i ran home it got a bit sweaty), showered and put on my sandalwood oil and then typed in the domain and.... NOTHING.
I give up... I am going out on book distribution to see if I real can receive gopi-bhava. in the highest service by connecting people to Krishna, like the gopi’s. So it is goodbye forever (unless that doesn’t work and then I will be back later in hopes of some more direction).
Please pray for me…
Aspiring to be a servant of the Vaisnavas,
Madhava - Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:17:32 +0530
All right. That does it.
Thank you, Rasaraja, for pointing out the decrease in the quality of the recent posts in the forums. Effective immediately, I will begin removing all posts and/or threads which I consider sarcastic, demeaning or otherwise inappropriate. Whoever wants to have copies of their posts, they can PM me and request for a copy of the removed post.
People, please use the "Report this post" feature, and click on it if you feel you've just read something inappropriate. I cannot spend all my days considering whether each post is appropriate or not in the eyes of our audience. I need your help in this regard.
Madhava - Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:29:31 +0530
I have now closed some threads and removed some posts which were provocative. I have also removed some posts which were posted without making any point, just to say "hee hee". Such posts are not necessary; it is better to not say anything if one does not have anything substantial to say.
I do not have the time to review each post of each and every recent thread, please let me know if I've missed something.
Let us try to keep up the quality of these forums.
Jagat - Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:35:58 +0530
I looked over the deleted threads and agree wholeheartedly with Madhavaji's decision. I am rather sorry I did not take this action myself.
Older devotees need to set a good example. Anyone who has been a schoolteacher or parent knows that if you start to fool around, the young'uns will soon distort and magnify the tomfoolery until control is lost.
Humor amongst friends should be gentle. Even if Krishna is a dhira-lalita, parihasa visharada and all that, for us, Raganuga is a matter of some solemnity.
I would like to add the following: We know Kshamabuddhi from his activities on other forums. Though he came onto this forum to challenge and question Raganuga ideas, and though his style and debating technique are often borderline, he has on the whole been behaving himself far, far better than he ever did anywhere else. I am sad to say that some of those who claim to take the high road are the ones who have been more guilty of overstepping the bounds of good taste and generous dealings.
There is no magic pill that turns us into decent human beings. But lobha for Vraja should make us want to become worthy. The main pillar of worthiness is respect for others, especially those who come to us, for whatever reason.
So I would like to apologize to Kshamabuddhi on behalf of these forums and to leave our invitation to participate here open--where we will try to apply the same rules of social interaction to everyone. The same apology, of course, extends to everyone else who was troubled by this diversion into territory that was heretofore reserved for other forums.
braja - Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:38:35 +0530
I wrote this earlier but maybe it's somewhat appropriate here, as an appreciation for all that I see as great on these forums:
I was looking at an old thread
earlier regarding the birthplace of Mahaprabhu. I only read a page or two but the discussion was incredibly civil, with personal experiences, beliefs and hard facts--maps, historical references, sastra--being presented. I have to admit to being kinda surprised to see that most participants were willing to be swayed to a certain extent. Nitai was also in the discussion and he sounded really reasonable, e.g.
Remember we are dealing with a religious tradition that every year constructs images out of mud and straw into which the Goddess Durga is invoked. Then after the Pujo days, with great ceremony and eclat, those images are dropped into the Ganga. Heck, I am about ready to invoke the birth site of Mahaprabhu right here in Missouri
Now I have no idea why I didn't think he would be! I never heard his name mentioned in ISKCON apart from possibly reading a letter where Prabhupada mentioned him and what I have voluntarily
read on his site, which can be a little spicy at times. I thought it was interesting how I was prepared to demonize him quite easily and for all times based on that.
It was nice to see a thread like that where people adhered to a respectable discussion. The icing on the cake for me was Adiyen's post:
If Muralidhar thought that perhaps opposition to Mayapur is an article of faith amongst non- Math orthodox Gaudiyas, I have an anecdote. On my visit to Radhakunda last year I happened to mention Mayapur to Sri Anantadas Pandit, the Guru and Guide of many devotees on this website. I may have misheard, but am rather sure he said, 'Mayapur? Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu Janamasthan...ki jaya!' raising his arms to indicate Mahaprabhu's dancing. I did not take this to mean that he supported the Mayapur side of this debate, even less that he was urging me to. Rather he was indicating appreciation of all devotees of Mahaprabhu, beyond these disputes which sometimes divide us.
(Hopefully he hasn't since retracted it--I love that ideal of the true sadhu as someone who can "step beyond" and remind us of our purpose.)
I personally like the challenge and edification of coming here. I go away with an immense appreciation for the Gaudiya heritage and theology, an appreciation for the skills and time so many of you have invested in translating and understanding the Gaudiya texts and culture, and I am humbled. In being forced to look at my own beliefs, I am born again. (Adiyen was right about my Christian undertones!) And to be honest, I'm kinda glad for the bursts of vitriol and sarcasm, as it keeps things "real". I'd probably be sitting under a tree at Govardhan right now seeking divine instruction if everything was presented without that human element, idealist that I am.
Jagat - Sat, 22 Nov 2003 02:47:40 +0530
The trouble with being part of a group is that sometimes we identify with it so much that we react to outsiders in ways that serve no purpose but to increase our solidarity with the in-group.
This can happen to all of us when we are amongst people we admire and think that actions directed against the out-group will win us group approval.
Becoming a mature individual means being able to stand up to this kind of pressure, whether it is voluntary (coming from within) or involuntary (from without). This should be easier in the forum setting, where there are no dirty looks or muttered insults.
It is the duty of leaders to see that no one is treated as an outsider. It is true that a guest should not be allowed to insult his hosts, but it is even worse form for hosts to insult their guests.
Rasesh - Sat, 22 Nov 2003 05:47:00 +0530
Babhru - Sat, 22 Nov 2003 12:52:16 +0530
Jagat: It is the duty of leaders to see that no one is treated as an outsider. It is true that a guest should not be allowed to insult his hosts, but it is even worse form for hosts to insult their guests.
Very well said. This reminds me of an incident from long ago. I remember it as if it were yesterday . . .
After spending a year as head pujaris at ISKCON Honolulu, my wife and I moved to the Bid Island to escape the nasty politics surrounding the temple. A year and a half later, we went to Honolulu for a few days to see Srila Prabhupada. While there, our sentiments for the Deities swelled, and we asked if we could cook an offering for the Deities. Although the president had visited our home on the Big Island and seen that our standard was at least as high as that at the temple, he just looked at us and said, "Sorry--you don't live in the temple." I thought on the spot that he could more effectively entice us back (he tried that when he visisted us five months earlier) by making us feel like family, rather than like outsiders. I hope I have applied that lesson in my own life.
Mina - Sun, 23 Nov 2003 05:51:42 +0530
Ksamabuddhi Ji: My apologies to you. I hope you were not offended. It was all meant to be just in a spirit of frivolity, and not to be taken seriously by anyone. Apparently it was too over the top. I will refrain from any further sarcasm at your expense.