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All varieties of devotional topics that don't fit under the other sections of the forums. However, devotionally relevant topics, please - there are other boards for other topics.

Adhikara and Govinda-lilamrita - Some musings



Jagat - Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:11:46 +0530
Some of you with a taste for the Krishna conscious underbelly may have come across the following thread.

http://istagosthi.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.c...ic&f=1&t=001429

I studiously avoided answering there because Kshamabuddhi's point is not to glorify devotion--raganuga or vidhi--but purely to make me look bad. So what is the point in casting pearls before swine?

More than ever, it is clear that raganuga bhakti is about a particular predisposition to Krishna and his lila, which is beyond the capacity of certain people to understand. For the vaidhi-bhakta, everything is about accomplishment. He sees devotion to Krishna in terms of statistics--how many rounds per day, how many years initiated, how many days fasting, how many hours spent sleeping per day. They despise anyone who is not ringing up Teemu Selanne-type statistics as unworthy of a raganuga devotee.

For them, the idea that regulative principles take a back seat for the raganuga bhakta is anathema. You are not a sannyasi? You are not engaged twenty-four hours a day in bhajan? You are unworthy of raganuga bhakti. Go back to square one and do penance. It is hard for them to understand when we say they are missing the point.

As I am editing the Govinda-lilamritam, which Madhava kindly typed out for the GGM, I am finding great pleasure in the book and a few fleeting thoughts have crossed my spirit. Madhava's little uddipana thread also reminded me of Krishna. After all, a nice elevated soul like Madhava thinks about Krishna even when he sees snow, because he wants to know how it should make him think of Krishna.

But look at Govinda-lilamrita, which is so disdained by a mundane Sanskritist like S.K. De, who only wishes that Sanskrit had produced a "Merchant of Venice," or something else along the lines of John Donne or Shakespeare. For him, these pure idealizations, these fantasies, these blissful diversions are only a waste of time?

It is clear that Govinda-lilamrita is only for the devotees. It is only devotees who are going to feel a frisson when Yashoda laments that they have hundreds of servants, why should Krishna go herding the cows, and barefoot at that! Or when Krishna tells his parents to go back to the village, he'll be alright with the cows in the forest, while he's really chomping at the bit to meet with Radha at her Kund. Or when Vrinda precedes Krishna into the forest, telling all the creatures to wake up and get to their posts because there is no need any longer for separation.

Yes, this is a world that is a "Pada-free" zone. At this level, it is no longer meant to reveal deep truths about the world we live in, with its complex psychology, with its deep-rooted penchant for evil. It is meant to exalt, to show us where the beauty of this world is pointing.

So Krishnadas Kaviraj exults in the delights of Sanskrit, just like Govinda Das Kaviraj and Jnana Das exult in Brajbuli and Bengali. It is meant to be a joy and that is what it is.

Without an axiomatic feeling for Radha and Krishna, that the essence of human love and beauty is embodied in them and magnified to the highest perfection, these things do become trivial--but seeing them as trivial is a far greater danger than seeing them as pornographic. This is why a certain undercurrent of aisvarya-jnana and a certain commitment to vidhi are necessary to even the raganuga bhakta.

But qualified or unqualified, if your heart aches for Vrindavan and if your mind finds delight in Krishna as he plays his flute on entering the forest with the cows, you are a part of Radha's gana. Hold on to that and don't let the naysayers confuse you.
dauji - Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:49:40 +0530
QUOTE(Jagat @ Oct 25 2003, 02:41 PM)
But qualified or unqualified, if your heart aches for Vrindavan and if your mind finds delight in Krishna as he plays his flute on entering the forest with the cows, you are a part of Radha's gana. Hold on to that and don't let the naysayers confuse you.

Thank you for these encouraging words.
Jagat - Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:29:06 +0530
I was dwelling on my sports star analogy. If spiritual life was only left to the professionals, it would be a very elitist and unworthy thing indeed.

Let us continue with the example of the sports star. Let us say that as a young man or girl, you played hockey every day. Your ambition was to become a player in the NHL. You were obsessed: you watched on television, you thought of the great players and you remembered their achievements.

At the age of fifteen or sixteen, it becomes clear that you are not one of the chosen. You will never be a successful professional. You become an accountant, but you remain interested in your sport. The samskara is very deep.

You still watch the games, you still keep up with the results. Perhaps you even have some friends who did make it into the big leagues. You still go on Friday nights to play a pick-up game with some of your friends from high school and perhaps your office. Your children start to play, and perhaps you coach for their teams.

Then one day the inevitable comes when you are too old, or an injury makes it impossible for you to even play your weekly game with friends. Your children are grown and your connection loosens. But still, your samskara runs deep.

Your brain has been formed and has taken the shape of hockey. The neurons don't jump or skip, they skate. The world is one big analogy for hockey, and hockey is the prism through which you see the world.

To say that raganuga bhakti is only for the professionals is false propaganda. Raganuga bhakti is for those who identify themselves as a part of Vrindavan.
adiyen - Sun, 26 Oct 2003 05:33:51 +0530
Thanks to Kshamabuddhi for inadvertantly provoking these magnificent observations from you Jagat.

This goes beyond your essay in 'Mystic Poetry'. I would say also to SKDe that the Shakespearean tradition is rooted in the Rasa of Tragedy, an apotheosis which requires rigid systematic development to achieve its effect. Nietzsche points out that we westerners are products of the tragic (Vaiddhi?) tradition of the Greeks. In the west, even in comedy (starting with Shakespeare), profound moments are always tragic moments. Sweet moments are always 'mere' entertainment. But in India we find a unique and different aesthetic focus :Madhurya as all-in all. (Of course, to a hardened Hellenised western observer this is 'decadence').

Rasa in India is evoked ecstatically, emotionally, not logically. The method of Kaviraj-ji is meant to provoke moments of ecstatic insight and achieves this. Just as with Indian music, there is no logical development to an inescapable conclusion, a realisation of inescapable destiny (tragedy) - a climax - as in the western tradition. Rather Indian music is a searching, probing attempt to provoke moments of divine emotional insight, moments of absolute authenticity, which is why it can't be written down. Systematics are secondary to the moment.

SK De may be said to be merely lamenting the 'lack' of tragedy in Indian literature.

(Am I invoking Abhinava here, and ignoring Nitai's work on Bhoja? I still haven't understood Nitai's argument fully. Apologies if I am just echoing something you've already said, I'm not sure if I'm saying anything original.)
Jagat - Sun, 26 Oct 2003 06:37:51 +0530
Interesting. I shall mull.
TarunGovindadas - Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:26:28 +0530
Radhe Radhe!

thanks dear Jagat.

spoken from the core of my heart.
im sick of my vaidhi-educated, tormented by rules/regulations-mind.

i feel that aching too. deep enough.
so many times i started reading Govinda-lilamritam, feeling first blissful, only to be harassed by all that
false propaganda thrown in the abyss of my mind.

now, since i decided strongly to be a "no-more-inbetweener", and since i decided to follow
Srila Ananta das Babaji again, i started reading "Krischna-bhavanamritam".
how wonderful!

and besides, mental japa works fine!

after nearly 14 years, i started to chant mental japa last week.
now on this weekend, by Their Lordships grace i was chanting 32 and today 28 rounds.
i feel so GOOD!
please, dont misunderstand, i dont want to be a proud announcer of my chanting glories, no, just sharing my
very awesome experience.

....the unlearning continous....

thankful Tarunji
wink.gif
Jagat - Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:31:25 +0530
Govinda-lilamrita is a purely joyful work. It is actually quite different from most Sanskrit literature. I mean, take most of the famous maha-kavyas--the Sisupala-vadhas or Naisadhiya-caritas--they are laborious and dense. GLA is light and joyful. He mixes meters (this is important, as most maha-kavyas tend to stick with one meter through an entire sarga), but the ones he prefers are the light ones like druta-vilambita or malati, with rhymes thrown in, that just buoy one's mood. You are carried along, even in the brief periods of separation.

The music going through my head is "Peter and the Wolf."

iti zubha-zakunekSodbhUta-mun-mantharANAM
vividha-kuTila-hAsyollAsam AtanvatInAm |
praNaya-sahacarINAM zreNibhiH pUrNa-pArzvA
mada-gaja-guru-yAnA kAnanAbhyarNam Apa ||8.44|| (malati meter)

Completely surrounded by all her loving friends,
who giggled with pleasure as they teased her,
the joy arising from seeing auspicious signs slowing them down,
Radha reached the border of the forest,
her gait more beautiful than that of an intoxicated elephant.
Jagat - Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:11:16 +0530
I reread your post, Braja, and I find it quite a profound insight, though I had to meditate on the terms.

It is unusual, however, that this goes somewhat against another dichotomy that I have had occasion to think about, that of "pessimism" and "optimism." Indian religions are generally considered pessimistic because they begin with the premise that this world is a lost cause. The real happiness lies elsewhere, so efforts are producing it in this world are a waste.

Thus happiness is not found in changing or improving the world, but in transforming one's vision of it, by projecting happy faces on the world--whether they be of impersonal monism or those of theism.

This in turn (the critique goes) makes Indian religions inadequate in confronting the problem of evil. This world is "the best of all possible worlds", so how can evil be a problem? Evil is only ignorance, thus forgivable, and not something that must be battled against constantly, uprooted and destroyed.

Of course, these are caricatures of a world view, and we are always subject to caricatures. Nevertheless, they do present philosophical and theological problems that need resolution. Even more so for raganuga bhaktas, whose focus is so "other-worldly." Those whose God is in this world, and for whom service represents actions in this world, have less of a problem.

I hardly have the time to deal adequately with these problems here, but I think that they are related to your insights above.
Madhava - Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:13:20 +0530
In the thread Jagat linked us with, a person calling himself Chatterbug states that I am "a sahajiya wearing dreadlocks". I may be a sahajiya, but I do not have dreadlocks. I have nothing against having dreadlocks, but I do not have dreadlocks myself, nor do I intend to get dreadlocks anytime soon. However, I have an inner dread lock preventing me from participating in the forums where the thread is posted. Jagat is our brave ambassador there.
adiyen - Tue, 28 Oct 2003 02:55:49 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Oct 27 2003, 08:43 PM)
In the thread Jagat linked us with, a person calling himself Chatterbug states that I am "a sahajiya wearing dreadlocks". I may be a sahajiya, but I do not have dreadlocks. I have nothing against having dreadlocks, but I do not have dreadlocks myself, nor do I intend to get dreadlocks anytime soon. However, I have an inner dread lock preventing me from participating in the forums where the thread is posted. Jagat is our brave ambassador there.

I haven't seen a recent pic of you, Madhava, so I don't know how you are tonsured, but they seem not to know that in Bengal, long hair is traditionally worn by scholars.

You would think all that 1960's prejudice against long hair would have passed by now. Prabhupada had such a struggle to regulate his disciples that he made them shave their heads once per week.

Nowadays it is much more fashionable to shave the head, while long hair is worn by some who find it convenient.

Actually I just heard that I have an Indian Gurubhai who has dreadlocks. A sadhu called Pagal Baba. Probably the majority of Vaishnava Sadhus, Ramanandis, wear dreadlocks. It is 'Vedic'.

By some people's definition of 'sahajiya' everyone, including themselves, is implicated: They say that to think of Krishna is 'mental concoction'. Yet they also say that the Holy Name which they chant is a 'shadow', an 'imitation', which prepares for the 'pure name'. Therefore they are also 'imitationists' who think that the Lord's Holy Name is mundane!
Jagat - Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:53:47 +0530
"inner dread lock"

Very apt and clever, Madhava. I understand perfectly what you mean. I feel it, too.
Radhapada - Tue, 28 Oct 2003 06:08:29 +0530
When I read Govinda Lilamrta I find the poetry and lilas to knock my head off in astonishment. It is beauty and love in its utmost degree.
TarunGovindadas - Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:13:38 +0530
Radhe Radhe!

i also grow now some really heavy dread locks against scholars like Chatterbug.

interesting thing, AC Bhaktivedanta Swami gives the advice to sexual agitated people to read
"rasa-lila-pastimes", but normal, sane and balanced people are not allowed.
funny thing.

i also admire Jagats courage to play with people like that Chatterbug in their far-out Championship-league.

im happy sitting here, reading some posts.
smiling.

Tarunji
adiyen - Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:06:38 +0530
Jagat, just tangential to your comments on recognition of evil above, but directly relevant to your recent concerns about the unhappy relationship between European religious tradition and Anti-Semitism, please have a look at the following article, which is uniquely balanced and informed:

http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0311...rhonheimer.html


It briefly and concisely establishes the roots of the type of comments that devotee on VNN was making.
jagannathdas - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 02:40:37 +0530
Jagat
Your recent posts are nicely timed as I am also reading Govinda Lilamrita at the moment. Is it possible to teach the prominent sanskrit meters used there, on this forum? It would nice to have some input on basic sanskrit for beginners, either on a different thread or part of the site and if possible recordings of different meters that could be converted to mp3 or similar for download.
jagannathdas - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 03:12:11 +0530
Also on the theme of Govinda Lilamrta, can anyone inform me of the role of the vanadevi's or forest goddess's. They are mentioned for example in chapter7 verse13,
"Radhakunda has many forest godesses and hundreds of maidservents that fetch various kinds of fruits, flowers and other items suitable for Radha and Krsna's service. Within the flower gardens and sub forests are cottages that are filled with such items by Vrnda devi".
It would seem that their role facilitates the lila of Radha and Krsna in the 'background' as they do not seem to be mentioned by name or brought into the 'foreground' of the lila as the maidservents do? I would also imagine a link between them and Vrnda devi, is this mentioned anywhere?
Gaurasundara - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:36:35 +0530
QUOTE(jagannathdas @ Oct 28 2003, 09:10 PM)
Jagat
Your recent posts are nicely timed as I am also reading Govinda Lilamrita at the moment. Is it possible to teach the prominent sanskrit meters used there, on this forum? It would nice to have some input on basic sanskrit for beginners, either on a different thread or part of the site and if possible recordings of different meters that could be converted to mp3 or similar for download.

An excellent idea, Jagannathji!
I am also learning some very basic Sanskrit lessons and it would be nice if a scholar like Jagat could give some impromptu lessons. Jagatji, I hope you will take this request seriously.

Also, you say you are reading Govinda-lilamrita. Cna I ask wher eyou got it from? Somewhere on the Net?
TarunGovindadas - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:01:35 +0530
Radhe Radhe!

order "Govinda lilamrita " (hardbound!) from Advaita das in Holland (see link "literature on this page).
excellent.

what a nice book, and since you will maybe order anyway, order "Krishna bhavanamrita (hardbound) too.

jewels of poetry.

Tarunji
wink.gif wink.gif
Madhava - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:58:41 +0530
QUOTE(TarunKishordas @ Oct 29 2003, 07:31 AM)
order "Govinda lilamrita " (hardbound!) from Advaita das in Holland (see link "literature on this page).
excellent.

Actually, see http://www.madangopal.com .
Advaitadas - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:26:23 +0530
QUOTE
I have seen enough of raganuga.com to know that is is promoted and maintained by a sahajiya wearing dreadlocks. I have read enough of Madhavananda das to see that he thinks he knows better than Bhaktivinode and feels that his line has a better grasp of Goswami doctrine than does Bhaktivinode.


I am glad to announce that in this Kartik month, in which one is not supposed to cut hair, I had my first haircut since June 1999. My (unmatted) hair used to touch my buttocks, but now it is just modestly down to the shoulders. Perhaps now I am eligible to read about Lord Krishna and the gopis' pastimes? And perhaps I am now also eligible to conclude that 6 Gosvamis is enough and no 7th Gosvami was ever mentioned in any of the mahajanas books and literature?
TarunGovindadas - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:36:45 +0530
Radhe Radhe!

cool point, dear Advaita das.

i also believed for so long that it is necessary to shave hair and run around with sikha.
how nice that the traditional Gaudiya way is far from that.

is there anything like an external standard for wearing hair or clothes?

and besides, dear Advaita das, you helped me in my life life so MUCH, just by translating all this wonderful literature.
although im quite foolish and my faith was very shaky, i m very much indebted to you for
making these jewels available for the interested public.

thanks.

Tarunji
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
Advaitadas - Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:58:28 +0530
QUOTE
is there anything like an external standard for wearing hair or clothes?


No. Hairdo is up to the Guru of the individual devotee to decide. Neckbeads is usually a must. Dhotis are recommended especially for the time of sadhana, but is not over all compulsory.

QUOTE
and besides, dear Advaita das, you helped me in my life life so MUCH, just by translating all this wonderful literature.


At your service.
Mina - Thu, 30 Oct 2003 01:18:25 +0530
QUOTE(Vaishnava-das @ Oct 28 2003, 07:06 PM)
QUOTE(jagannathdas @ Oct 28 2003, 09:10 PM)
Jagat
Your recent posts are nicely timed as I am also reading Govinda Lilamrita at the moment. Is it possible to teach the prominent sanskrit meters used there, on this forum? It would nice to have some input on basic sanskrit for beginners, either on a different thread or part of the site and if possible recordings of different meters that could be converted to mp3 or similar for download.

An excellent idea, Jagannathji!
I am also learning some very basic Sanskrit lessons and it would be nice if a scholar like Jagat could give some impromptu lessons. Jagatji, I hope you will take this request seriously.

Also, you say you are reading Govinda-lilamrita. Cna I ask wher eyou got it from? Somewhere on the Net?

I just received an email from Nitai yesterday. His Sanskrit teacher, J. Prabhakar Shastri, is teaching at U. of Wisconsin, Madison, and Nitai saw him at a conference there last weekend. Shastriji has been working on an English translation of Panini's sutras and Nitai wants to get it printed. He is looking for financial contributions for that purpose. Jiva's grammar, as well as others, are all based on Panini (the grandfather of Sanskrit grammar).
Jagat - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 01:33:02 +0530
I would like to return to my original topic with the original observation that I made on Istagosthi, which excited the ire of the undercultured, and that was that "Raganuga bhakti is a question of identity."

Today, I wrote the following:
Raganuga bhakti is about wanting and following. It is about visualizing the spiritual world as described in the works of the Goswamis and adopting that vision as one's own.

Siddha-pranali is not about "having" something, but about defining what one wants, or in some cases, accepting a definition. The theory is that the clearer one defines one's goals through visualization, the more likely one is to achieve them.

As with anything else, it may "take" or not "take."
I think it is fair to say that nothing is accomplished without first having formulated an idea in the mind. Of course, some things happen to us that are beyond our control. When it comes to good things, that is grace, or sukriti.

But the role that desire plays in this is in the formulation of things. This is why Bhaktivinoda Thakur in Harinama-cintamani places so much emphasis on approaching the spiritual master with a rather well-developed idea of one's spiritual identity and puts the stress on his approval.

The Gaudiya Math's objection is that such things are not to be forced. Of course, I think it is highly unlikely that such things can be forced on anyone. Even if one's ideas are very vague and the spiritual master imposes a certain identity, that is a way of coagulating a particular set of concepts and ideas on the disciple who has already constructed some kind of idea of where he wants to go.

I have seen in my friend Gadadhar Pran someone who had very well developed ideas in this regard. Our spiritual master was delighted with his clear concept of the lila and his part in it. On the other hand, persons like myself had a vaguer notion and rather expected our spiritual master to give a helping hand.

The objectors often state that this is artificial, but it is my experience that there is a "magical" element in initiation. By magical, I mean grace. One is being given one's inheritance. That means that even when one forgets, it does not go away. It is about identity, which when cultivated becomes the spoke and anchor of our being.

Bhakti, raganuga or vaidhi, is an anusilana. Anusilana means "culture" or "cultivation." The vaidhi bhakti's culture is predominantly externalso many rounds, so many dandavats, so many verses memorized. What exactly is the raganuga devotee trying to cultivate? He or she is cultivating a personality, both internal and external. The inner and outer personalities are inextricably linked. The inner personality is the refuge of the outer.

The external personality is a fake without the inner culture.

What is the difference between the Mayavadi and the Vaishnava? The Vaishnava has an inner personality. There is another world, another identity to which he truly belongs. His external characteristics of humility, etc., are real because they are the reflections of an inner identity and not a house that is built on the sand of brahma-jnana, or worse, a completely illusory house built on the desires for labh, puja and pratishtha.

The real battle is not with sensuality, but with reason, which asks, "Who is this inner person? How is that the real me?"
Madhava - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 01:44:16 +0530
I note that your audience is very fond of your realizations in the other forum.

Good points. I am too tired right now to start putting together my thoughts in this regard.
Madhava - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 01:56:54 +0530
QUOTE(jagannathdas @ Oct 28 2003, 09:42 PM)
Also on the theme of Govinda Lilamrta, can anyone inform me of the role of the vanadevi's or forest goddess's. They are mentioned for example in chapter7 verse13,
"Radhakunda has many forest godesses and hundreds of maidservents that fetch various kinds of fruits, flowers and other items suitable for Radha and Krsna's service. Within the flower gardens and sub forests are cottages that are filled with such items by Vrnda devi".
It would seem that their role facilitates the lila of Radha and Krsna in the 'background' as they do not seem to be mentioned by name or brought into the 'foreground' of the lila as the maidservents do? I would also imagine a link between them and Vrnda devi, is this mentioned anywhere?

According to Radha-Krishna-ganoddesa-dipika, the dutis, headed by Vrinda, Vrindarika, Mena and Murala, are also responsible for arrangements related with the flora of Vrindavan and the various trysting-places of Sri Yugala. They are generally Krishna-snehadhika, in contrast to the maidservants of Radha.
Madhava - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 01:59:51 +0530
QUOTE(Vaishnava-das @ Oct 29 2003, 01:06 AM)
I am also learning some very basic Sanskrit lessons and it would be nice if a scholar like Jagat could give some impromptu lessons. Jagatji, I hope you will take this request seriously.

Also, you say you are reading Govinda-lilamrita. Can I ask where you got it from? Somewhere on the Net?

This is what he was (proof)reading:

http://www.granthamandira.org/details.php?image_id=531

On Sanskrit meters in Gaudiya-literature:

http://jagat.wisewisdoms.com/articles/show...ticle.php?id=66
Jagat - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 02:06:53 +0530
Thanks, Madhava. I don't want to sound too obsequious, but when I read the post of Rasaraja on the other recent thread, I have to bow down my head to your feet and thank you again for making it possible for people like this to find a home here.

There is nothing else like it in the ("virtual") Vaishnava world. It is truly unique, and I am almost in tears with appreciation.
Jagat - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 02:18:25 +0530
By the way, my sastra for what I say above is from Jiva Goswami, who says this:

astu tAvad bhajana-prayAsaH | kevala-tAdRzatvAbhimAnenApi siddhir bhavati | (BhaktiS 304)

Even without making any external efforts at bhajan, if one has nothing else but the sincere conviction that he is Krishna's servant, he will attain all perfection.
Madhava - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 02:47:30 +0530
QUOTE(Jagat @ Nov 1 2003, 08:36 PM)
Thanks, Madhava. I don't want to sound too obsequious, but when I read the post of Rasaraja on the other recent thread, I have to bow down my head to your feet and thank you again for making it possible for people like this to find a home here.

There is nothing else like it in the ("virtual") Vaishnava world. It is truly unique, and I am almost in tears with appreciation.


"A man seeks his own inner beauty in the world. Just like the marmot at the lake."
"And how is that," asked Karataka.

And so Damanaka began to recite the tale of the owl and the marmot.

Once upon a time, in a forest far, far away, lived a marmot and an old, wise owl. The marmot, a seeker of beauty, roamed about hither and thither in the forest in search of the most beautiful being. The years passed, but the quest of the marmot seemed to never end, until one day he arrived on the bank of a serene lake at the edge of the forest.

As the marmot bowed down to quench his thirst, he all of a sudden beheld a marvelous being in the water, a being which excelled in beauty all that he had seen before; it was as if the personification of all that he thought as beautiful had appeared before his eyes.

The marmot began to lavishly praise the aquatic beauty with prayers of choice. Just then the old wise owl arrived, asking him, "What is it that you praise, my friend?"

"That marvelous beauty in the water, that is what I praise!", the marmot replied.

"Oh marmot, it is nothing but your own reflection that you behold in the water. It is nothing but your own beauty you have bestowed to the being you praise! If it were not for your beauty, the beauty in the water would not exist."

Thus, said Damanaka, since ancient times people have praised the beauty they have given to others.

"Then is it so," asked Karataka, "that the beauty in you increases in beatitude when bestowed unto others?"

"So it is," Damanaka confirmed.
Jagat - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 02:53:11 +0530
Where are you getting this translation?
Madhava - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 03:18:49 +0530
Huh? I just wrote it from a scratch. Now, don't tell me it's in the Pancatantra! huh.gif
Jagat - Sun, 02 Nov 2003 05:37:43 +0530
Aw shucks, you're not supposed to make a fool out of me, Madhava. I am an acharya, you know.

No wonder I did not recognize it. But it was pretty wise. Maybe I should translate it back into Sanskrit and stick it in the next edition!

The Pancatantra has all kinds of variant editions with many interpolated stories, so another one would not hurt.