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Gaudiya Discussions Archive » PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY
Discussions on the doctrines of Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Please place practical questions under the Miscellaneous forum and set this aside for the more theoretical side of it.

Radha's mahabhava vs her manjari's bliss -



Guest64128 - Wed, 10 Sep 2003 19:45:02 +0530
Radha has most love for krishna. However her manjari's surpass Radha's own bliss by ~8 times.
Therefore I ask which is superior the most love for krishna or the most bliss?
Advaitadas - Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:16:30 +0530
QUOTE
However her manjari's surpass Radha's own bliss by ~8 times.


The statement is from Rajaballabha Gosvami's Murali Vilasa as far as I remember and says that the manjaris enjoy 7x more bliss than Radha. Mahatmas in Vraja have told me, however, that this is a glorification of the manjaris. Makes sense. After all, who can have, or rather, be, a higher ecstasy than Radharani?

QUOTE
which is superior the most love for krishna or the most bliss?


The Gosvamis and later acaryas have expressed a higher attraction to Radha's service than to Krishna's, so the answer to that is 'the most bliss', which is the bliss of manjari bhava.
Madhava - Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:28:26 +0530
And after all, are the manjaris anything but embodied aspects of Sri Radha Herself?
Gaurasundara - Thu, 11 Sep 2003 04:45:19 +0530
QUOTE(Advaita Das @ Sep 10 2003, 02:46 PM)
Mahatmas in Vraja have told me, however, that this is a glorification of the manjaris. Makes sense. After all, who can have, or rather, be, a higher ecstasy than Radharani?

How can we know the difference if enlightened devotees like you are not around to help clarify? People may mistake this "glorification" as a "fact," and be misled in this way. Else how can we tell the difference between glorification and facts?

And why would anyone want to glorify the manjaris in such a way so that they appear superior to Radharani?
Gaurasundara - Thu, 11 Sep 2003 04:46:47 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Sep 10 2003, 06:58 PM)
And after all, are the manjaris anything but embodied aspects of Sri Radha Herself?

Which manjaris in particular does this apply to?

How many types of manjari are there?
Advaitadas - Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:08:47 +0530
QUOTE
And why would anyone want to glorify the manjaris in such a way so that they appear superior to Radharani?


Glorification transcends the boundaries of reason. There can be no limit to it, viz the superlatives in all shastras, like the Bhagavata, CC, Vrindavan Mahimamrita etc. They are also real facts, but only within the hearts of pure enlightened devotees. Persons who are still on the mundane plane must be careful not to implement them literally. For instance, in Vrindavan Mahimamrita it is said : "If anyone tells me to leave Vrindavan I will certainly kill him" (hanmyavasyam) - now of course that should not be implemented literally. It is a state of the heart and not a fact on the ground in the external world. Sorry, this is just a brief clarification, no intention to go off topic. ityalam.
Madhava - Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:12:30 +0530
QUOTE(Vaishnava-das @ Sep 10 2003, 11:15 PM)
QUOTE(Advaita Das @ Sep 10 2003, 02:46 PM)
Mahatmas in Vraja have told me, however, that this is a glorification of the manjaris. Makes sense. After all, who can have, or rather, be, a higher ecstasy than Radharani?

How can we know the difference if enlightened devotees like you are not around to help clarify? People may mistake this "glorification" as a "fact," and be misled in this way. Else how can we tell the difference between glorification and facts?

There are basically two ways to go.

1. Hang around with the enlightened.

2. Become enlightened yourself.

If you can't instantly take the second route, follow the first and you'll eventually reach the second.
Gaurasundara - Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:21:42 +0530
Nice replies from Advaitaji and Madhavaji, thank you. Radhe Radhe! biggrin.gif
Madhava - Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:04:30 +0530
QUOTE(Vaishnava-das @ Sep 10 2003, 11:16 PM)
QUOTE(Madhava @ Sep 10 2003, 06:58 PM)
And after all, are the manjaris anything but embodied aspects of Sri Radha Herself?

Which manjaris in particular does this apply to?

How many types of manjari are there?

All.

There are essentially two kinds of manjaris, manjaris, namely the nitya-sakhis, who are the general flock of manjaris and the prana-sakhis, who are the chief among them. Essentially the nature of a manjari is one, nevertheless. She is forever and ever the maidservant of Radharani.
Guest64128 - Sun, 14 Sep 2003 05:48:44 +0530
So since the statement that the manjari's bliss is ~7 times greater than Radha's bliss is simply a figurative or decorative statement then what is superior, gopi-bhava or manjari-bhava?
Madhava - Sun, 14 Sep 2003 06:10:22 +0530
QUOTE(Guest64128 @ Sep 14 2003, 12:18 AM)
So since the statement that the manjari's bliss is ~7 times greater than Radha's bliss is simply a figurative or decorative statement then what is superior, gopi-bhava or manjari-bhava?

Superiority is subjective. However, in terms of depth of experience, bhavollasa-rati, or manjari-bhava, is greater on account of the manjaris' sharing the very moods of Sri Radha Herself, to which the other gopis have no access.
Guest64128 - Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:05:44 +0530
" in terms of depth of experience"

By this you mean the level of bliss? So manjari-bhava has a higher bliss than gopi-bhava (Not including Radha)?

"the very moods of Sri Radha Herself, to which the other gopis have no access"

Yes but the other gopi's have moods similar to Radha's because they are having loving affairs with Krishna too.
Madhava - Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:19:30 +0530
The other nayikas certainly also possess maha-bhava, but only Radha experiences the zenith of madanakhya-mahabhava, and the manjaris vicariously share the experience on account of their oneness of feeling with Her.

We take it that the experience of the manjaris is the deepest, deeper than that of the other gopis. However, this is not something one should go around debating, since each individual feels that his/her very own relationship is the most precious one.