Whatever is left over from the archives of the old Raganuga.Com forums after most of the substantial threads were moved to the relevant areas of the main forums.
Radharani - Krisna supreme lord gopis
Guest_kailasa - Fri, 07 Feb 2003 17:53:21 +0530
In fact, Radharani is the internal potency of Sri Krsna, and She eternally intensifies the pleasure of Sri Krsna. Impersonalists cannot understand this without the help of a mahä-bhägavata devotee. The very name Radha suggests that She is eternally the topmost mistress of the comforts of Sri Krsna. As such, She is the medium transmitting the living entities’ service to Sri Krsna.
Srila Prabhupada: Similarly, Krsna being the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as soon as we think of Krsna, this means all the energies of Krsna. That is complete by saying, “Radha-Krsna.” Radha represents all the energy of Krsna. And Krsna is the Supreme Lord. So when we speak of Krsna, the living entities are also included because the living entities are energies, different energies of Krsna—superior energy. So when this energy is not serving the energetic, that is material existence.
The enjoyer is Krsna. Enjoyer is Krsna. Just like Krsna in Vrndrvana, as we sung this song, jaya Radha-mädhava... Jaya Radha-mädhava kuïja-bihäré. He is enjoying in Vrndavana. His only feature is... That is the real picture of God: simply enjoying. Bhoktäraà yajïa-tapasäà sarva-loka-maheçvaram. That is the real picture of God. The Vrndavana-lila of Krsna is the perfect presentation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He’s simply enjoying. And all the inhabitants of Vrndavana, the gopis, the cowherd boys, Mahäräja Nanda, Yaçodä, everyone is simply anxious how to make Krsna happy. They have no other business. The inhabitants of Vrndavana has no other business than to satisfy Krsna, and Krsna has no other business. Yaçodä-nandana brajajana-raïjana. He’s acting as the little son of Yaçodä, and His only business is how to please the inhabitants of Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: So this is the—sit down—original nature of Krsna, original nature of Krsna. He is Radha-Mädhava. He is the lover of Srimati Radharani. And kuïja-vihäré, always enjoying the company of the gopis within the bushes of Vrdavana forest. Radha-mädhava kuïja-vihäré. So He’s not only lover of Radharani, but braja-jana-vallabha. The whole residents of Vrndavana, they love Krsna. They do not know anything else. They do not know whether Krsna is God, or not; neither they are very much harassed, that “I shall love Krsna if He is God.” “He may be God or He may be whatever He is. It doesn’t matter, but we love God, Krsna.” That’s all. That is called unnalloyed love.
Being always absorbed in the ecstasy of Srimati Radharani, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu felt the same separation from Krsna that Srimati Radharani felt when Krsna left Vrndavana and went to Mathura. This ecstatic feeling is very helpful in attaining love of God in separation. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu has taught everyone that one should not be overly anxious to see the Lord, but should rather feel separation from Him in ecstasy. It is actually better to feel separation from Him than to desire to see Him face to face.
This conjugal love attains its highest perfection in Srimati Radharani’s love for Krsna. He next described the position of Srimati Radharani and the transcendental mellows of love of God. Srila Ramananda Raya then recited a verse of his own concerning the platform of ecstatic vision, technically called prema-viläsa-vivarta.
The gopis, Radharani, they are expansion of the spiritual energy of Krsna. Don’t think they are ordinary women. They are Krsna. Çaktiù çaktimator abhedaù. They are not different from Krsna. But to give Krsna pleasure, Krsna expands Himself by His spiritual energy, änanda hladini, spiritual energy, sandiné hlädiné. That is the expansion of His pleasure potency.
Directly we don’t approach Krsna. Gopé-bhartur päda-kamalayor däsa-däsanudäsa. Therefore in Vrndavana you will see everyone is praising Radharani because Radharani is very quickly pleased. And as soon as Radharani is pleased, Krsna is automatically pleased. This is the process.
But Vaiñëava philosophy is so nice that instead of becoming one with the Supreme, they want to become the father of the Supreme. This is Vaisnava philosophy. Nandätmäja. Rasika-çekhara. This is also a pleasure. Krsna wants to be subordinate to His devotee as son so that He may be punished. He is punishing everyone, but He wants to be punished also. That is His pleasure. And who will punish Him? His father and mother, superior. Or superior lover, Radharani, can punish Him.
Therefore Krsna is the Supreme God. Krsnas tu bhagavän svayam. It is confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that He is the Supreme Personality, original Personality of Godhead. He is nobody’s under control. Even He was not controlled by His supreme lover Radharani. Radharani is considered... The gopis are considered the topmost lover of Krsna. But when Krsna decided to leave Vrndavana, oh, they began to cry. They blocked the way. Krsna didn’t care, went away. Went away. He didn’t care even. So much dear Radharani. They became blind, crying, crying, crying, crying, whole life. But Krsna never returned. Never returned. He sent His message, He sent His letter, that “I am very sorry, but...” That is God. He is not controlled by anything. Anything. That is Krsna. Krsnas tu bhagavän svayam.
Because Krsna and His energy appeared simultaneously, people have generally formed two groups—the saktas and the Vaisnavas—and sometimes there is rivalry between them.
This is confirmed in Govinda-lilamrta (10.17): “Although manifest, happy, expanded and unlimited, the emotional exchanges between Radha and Krsna can only be understood by the damsels of Vraja or by their followers.” Just as no one can understand the expansion of the spiritual energy of the Supreme Lord without His causeless mercy, no one can understand the transcendental sex life between Radha and Krsna without following in the footsteps of the damsels of Vraja. The personal associates of Radharani are called sakhis, and Her near assistants are called manjaris. It is very difficult to express their dealings with Krsna because they have no desire to mix with Krsna or to enjoy Him personally. Rather, they are always ready to help Radharani associate with Krsna. Their affection for Krsna and Radharani is so pure that they are simply satisfied when Radha and Krsna are together. Indeed, their transcendental pleasure is in seeing Radha and Krsna united. The actual form of Radharani is just like a Srieper embracing the tree of Krsna, and the damsels of Vraja, the associates of Radharani, are just like the leaves and flowers of that Srieper. When a Srieper embraces a tree, the leaves and flowers as well as the Srieper automatically embrace it.
Guest_kailasa - Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:18:23 +0530
The sermon is internal energy. It is Radha. Lord Caitanya He preached continuously, an embodiment Radha. THIS mood Radha. It is fidelity Radha. If who that at a level bhava he will not sit, he will go to preach. " Hey the people listen to the message Lord Caitanya! - Hare Krisna hare Krisna Krisna Krisna Hare hare! " It is raganuga.
Lord Caitanya prema, Haridasa Thakura - prema. Lord Caitanya - Radha, all devotee Lord Caitanya all - expansion Radha. It is a secret Gaura lila. In Krisna lila only gopi, manjari are connected with Radha directly, in Gaura lila all devotee Lord Caitanya are connected with Radha. Lord Caitanya expansions in everyone devotee as Radha. Therefore among them there are no maximum and lowest because all of them madhurya of a maximum degree. Therefore among them there are no distinctions. There is no gradation gopis like in Krisna lila.
You know who you is? Now it is necessary will learn to work as soul. Go in the material world to preach. In the material world, it will be rolled in a hell, engage in it. You were present at all these crimes - you they are guilty as well as.
You are released? Now you should release all others. Your spiritual body will not get to anywhere, it is eternal. Moreover, helping anothers at THEIR level you will find knowledge at the YOUR level. Preach sankhya, develops your prema. Not? Yes. The spiritual science is absolute, it not relative knowledge.
If heart is not clean, that it will prompt yours. Yours WANT to be deceived, therefore you deceive. My heart prompts me where I best I shall be deceived.
Movement SP will develop. SP also has occupied GM-babaji. If they will not do that has established SP they simply will disappear. They should be followed for SP, all the same big realization they and have not received, what sense that they do?
The sermon is spiritually attractively, boundless dialogue, boundless sermon. You want boundless spiritual dialogue? It is the sermon. Infinite happiness, infinite realization. It is eternal activity of an eternal alive essence, it is not necessary so worries about clearing-spiritual body, sermon is the best way to clearing.
Follow for SP there all is - sraddha-prema, top prema bhakti. Great devotees - uttama adhikari will enjoy nectar of the books SP. Prabhupada is pure devotee Lord Caitanya with blessings Lord Advaita Acarya and Nityananda Prabhu. He is mood Lord Caitanya, power Nityananda Prabhu and anger Lord Siva. He is soft as Srivasa, is strong as Nityananda Prabhu and scientist as Advaita Acarya. People Vaikuntha see Srila Prabhupada like Lord Narayana ( according to their rasa ). And essence of His sermon it mahabhava, adi-rasa. He preaches one mood, maximum mood, therefore it is difficult for understanding because it is too high. We shall not see SP by material sight. Worshipping SP we shall receive the boon. But on the present we can understand SP only serving Him under His instructions.
The moon Lord Caitanya shines very brightly! Accept guru and follow for guru-Prabhupada. There are no contradictions - Rupa Goswami- Srila Bhaktivinoda - Narottama dasa Thakur - Srila Prabhupada - there are no contradictions. Only without Prabhupada hardly who that will understand all up to the end.
Now Lord Ñaitanya has opened last lock. Lord Caitanya would not come what to test happiness rasa dance with gopis. Krisna did not begin Radha in rasa dance. Because in rasa dance KRISNA enjoys more or equally with Radha, only in separation Radha surpasses Him. Krisna does not suffer in separation, He is independent, He the God. In Krisna lila sambhoga - madhurya replace each other. In gaura lila vipralambha madhurya - eternal emotion.
Krisna lila it is internal energy Lord Caitanya. Therefore only He can distribute knowledge of the God not doing distinctions. Goswamis have described all science of devoted service, but essence of all devoted service has described Itself Lord Caitanya. That we would not mix, more He in general nothing wrote.
Therefore reading Prabhupada as He is it is possible all to understand. Do not experience, all most important moments are not changed in the books.
The sermon is best sannyas, sermon this best service, the sermon is a way to reason, cleanliness, humility, spiritual body. Best guru are the people in the street. They very quickly will understand who you is, therefore we are afraid to go there. Anybody will not learn us so to preach as the people in the street. Anybody. All our realization is shown there in the true form.
In the other case you and will be engaged tama guna - " we best - these bad ". Has not bothered? Open the books Prabhupada and follow them, all will come - rasa, do not worry. Radha in grief. Radha searches Krisna. If the God will really be shown in your sermon, then Prabhupada will be pleased. For me it is possible to not show Krisna, show Krisna to this world. Radha may will be pleased. But then she becomes again sad. This spiritual "misfortune", it never comes to an end. Therefore sermon all becomes stronger and more best it is mood Prabhupada. Therefore this sermon has immense force and she never comes to an end, it uttama adhikari Lord Caitanya.
This emotions Lord Caitanya. Uttama adhikari does not see distinctions between the material world and spiritual world. It is love. With Prabhupda yours "never" will achieve perfection, but will rise on top prema - bhakti.
Tamal Baran das - Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:34:05 +0530
As Madhava already said Kailasa, it is very hard to understand flow of your thoughts.
Guest - Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:55:46 +0530
QUOTE(Tamal Baran das @ Feb 12 2003, 01:04 PM)
As Madhava already said Kailasa, it is very hard to understand flow of your thoughts.
The sermon is internal energy.
It is Radha.
Lord Caitanya He preached continuously, an embodiment Radha.
THIS mood Radha.
It is fidelity Radha.
If who that at a level bhava he will not sit, he will go to preach.
" Hey the people listen to the message Lord Caitanya! - Hare Krisna hare Krisna Krisna Krisna Hare hare! "
It is raganuga.
it is very hard to understand?
Tamal Baran das - Thu, 13 Feb 2003 05:55:49 +0530
Anyway,thank you Kailasa.My english also needs more improvement.I think we all learn constantly,while we are living in our material bodies.We always need knowledge and improvement.
Guest_kailasa - Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:31:10 +0530
Radhapada - Sat, 15 Feb 2003 23:10:16 +0530
I appreciate your attempts to help people who may lack spiritual understanding. I personally don't agree with your perspective that by follow Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's ISKCON teachings one would attain the highest. First of all, Prabhupada teaches that a true follower of Lord Caitanya is a follower of his ISKCON movement which I don't agree and find quite narrow-minded. Secondly, one attains advancement in devotional service by following an authentic devotional process based on the 64 items of bhakti bhajan described in Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu. A devotional process is not one that can be made up whimsically, but is passed down through a genuine tradition from Guru to disciple over the generations since the times of Mahaprabhu and His associates. Thirdly, the teachings, as decribed in the writings of the Six Goswamis who were directly empowered by Sri Caitanya, have to be purely presented and received.
It is my strong belief that the ISKCON and Gaudiya Math institutions are not connected to a genuine spiritual lineage, or parampara. Therefore, all their teachings are not transparant. I also strongly feel that the spiritual practices within these institutions do not have the full power because of not having that authentic connection to begin with. ISKCON nor Gaudiya Math cannot reveal a genuine raganuga sadhana to any of its members. The name 'raganuga' has so many varieties of expressions within these institutions because there is no genuine understanding of it. The concepts of raganuga are not clear and misinterpreted in the purports of Prabhupada's books. For a better understanding of raganuga bhakti I strongly recommend that you read the literature recommended on this website.
Mina - Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:11:07 +0530
I have to agree with Radhapada in this matter. ISKCON publications have numerous problems with them, not the least of which is the many statements that are clearly in the category of serious Vaishnava aparadha. Thirty years ago, there was not as much to choose from in English translations as there is today. So, with all one has available to read now, there is no need to crack open any of the books printed by ISKCON, Gaudiya Math or their offshoots, if one wants to gain an in-depth understanding of the teachings of the six Goswamis and our other great acharyas. To rely on them as source works can easily mislead one when it comes to many different topics. Some day they may go back and edit those works, but I am not holding my breath at this point.
Just to end on a positive note: The illustrations that their artists have done over the years are very inspiring.
Tamal Baran das - Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:31:14 +0530
I agree totally with both of you Radhapada das and Ramdas,it is just that i feel bad about Kailasa sometimes,because he can't actually write what he keeps inside.I think it is just my professional thing,that as a counsellor i always feel for such people.Regarding Iskcon,and all the other things mentioned i share same opinion.
Guest - Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:06:05 +0530
***First of all, Prabhupada teaches that a true follower of Lord Caitanya is a follower of his ISKCON movement which I don't agree and find quite narrow-minded.
in other places the people people act it can be more "properly", but as a rule it occurs that there there is only image. Thus far the organization of better than ISKCON it did not meet. Concerning filosofiii, concerning relations and honesty.
***Secondly, one attains advancement in devotional service by following an authentic devotional process based on the 64 items of bhakti bhajan described in Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu
ISKCON not follow it?
***A devotional process is not one that can be made up whimsically, but is passed down through a genuine tradition from Guru to disciple over the generations since the times of Mahaprabhu and His associates.
Yes. GM take aparadha SBST. You babaji? I am know not to mutch abhout babaji.
***Thirdly, the teachings, as decribed in the writings of the Six Goswamis who were directly empowered by Sri Caitanya, have to be purely presented and received.
What mood Goswamis? Rupa Goswami stay most in Gaura lila. Rupa Goswami and Raghunatha Goswami.
***It is my strong belief that the ISKCON and Gaudiya Math institutions are not connected to a genuine spiritual lineage, or parampara.
Parampara it is not phisikal body. "Yada yada dhi dharmasya" If religa lost God come .
***Therefore, all their teachings are not transparant.
I am know who I am in parampara. Not only self, mutch more aspects.
***I also strongly feel that the spiritual practices within these institutions do not have the full power because of not having that authentic connection to begin with.
In yours it is all right power?
***ISKCON nor Gaudiya Math cannot reveal a genuine raganuga sadhana to any of its members.
raganuga not sadhana, you preach raganuga for dear karmis?
***The name 'raganuga' has so many varieties of expressions within these institutions because there is no genuine understanding of it.
Ooo? you understand.
It is wery well.
All world now stay in love of god.
***The concepts of raganuga are not clear and misinterpreted in the purports of Prabhupada's books.
Prabhupada nice sastra. With out Prabhupada you do not understand bhakti yoga.
***For a better understanding of raganuga bhakti I strongly recommend that you read the literature recommended on this website.
I am read some. I am have many sastra. May be all Gosvamis and so on. I am read no problem. All bhakti yoga describe Lord Caitanya siksastaka.
Guest - Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:11:36 +0530
***ISKCON publications have numerous problems with them, not the least of which is the many statements that are clearly in the category of serious Vaishnava aparadha.
whom it aparadha ISKCON?
Guest_kailasa - Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:21:28 +0530
***Kailasa sometimes,because he can't actually write what he keeps inside
Almost all about which I think, I write. ISKCON large organization and for example you I do very little know, how it is possible to discuss things with people of which you do not know? GM I know sufficiently well, also, according to its personal experience. There also different people exist, but as a whole this very little pleases itself me. babaji so different. Exactly as iskcon has its "history", who in exactly the same manner and babaji already had time that to work.
Prisni - Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:20:26 +0530
I think we should put thing in a little perspective.
To learn spiritual matters, one have to start from the simple stuff and advance from that point. The simple learnings is a kind of primary school. Let's take math as an example. You start out by learning rigid rules about how to add, how to subtract and so on. There are so many rules that you have to study and follow, and most of them are not explained but just have to be learned by heart. Someone might think that if s/he chooses another teacher, or another school, learning math would become so much faster and it is possible to immediately jump to the more advanced topics, like analysis. But such a thinking is foolish. There is no other way than to start with the basics, and it does not matter that much which teacher or book is used. The basics has to be mastered first.
Later, when all the basics is taught, the rigid rules are dissolved, and one learns why they are how they are, under which circumstances they are valid and about other rules. Actually, you learn why addition works like it does, and so on. At that time, the rules are dissolved, and there are no rules anymore to follow blindly.
If we look at the spiritual teaching process in the same way, there is a whole lot of basics to be learned. It is just foolish to think that it is possible to jump over it. A teacher saying such a thing is probably bogous. There are a lot of rules, a lot of things to study and learn. It is a struggle. And it does not matter that much if it is the "highest" teacher that teaches the basics.
At a later time, when all the primary spiritual education is finished, one learns why there are rules, under which conditions the rules are valid and there is no nedd for blind following of rules anymore.
Prabupada gave a spiritual primary education. If it was not for him, who would give it? I think that is his glory. When I was looking for a guru 25 years ago, what alternatives where there? ISKCON was a good alternative, and actually the only alternative. And I did learn the spiritual basics, so I am satisfied. Prabhupada was clearly makeing a school for those on the primary level, and for that level everything makes sense. For those who have advanced past that stage, it does not matter anymore. They know why there are rules, why they are like they are, under which circumstances they should be followed and can actually make their own rules.
In the beginning it is not the matter of "the highest", it is a matter of the basics. And in the beginning there might be a need for a certain amount of fanatism and blind faith, just to overcome the grossest material conditioning. But one have to advance past that stage at some point of time.
Guest_kailasa - Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:42:52 +0530
***Prabupada gave a spiritual primary education.
He is take top.
mature fruit of devoted service has arrived.
All another am read home, not so understand.