Whatever is left over from the archives of the old Raganuga.Com forums after most of the substantial threads were moved to the relevant areas of the main forums.
Sudhir Attacks Nityananda Paribar -
Mina - Sat, 03 Aug 2002 08:35:14 +0530
This individual (apparently a follower of Sridhar) has written an absurd article on his website in which he depicts 108 Tin Kudi Goswami as a mere derelict. I realize that this in itself is just typical of that whole group. The problem is that when you run a google search with Baba's name the first hit is Sudhir's website with that article. You can complain at this URL, just click on the link for google search and let them know how unacceptable this situation is:
http://www.google.com/contact/
Thanks for your help.
At your service...
kanai - Sat, 03 Aug 2002 16:53:08 +0530
I have heard some ISKCON preachers talking aparadha and attacking other missions and movements.After continuous blasphemy which they have perpertrated for some years i didn't heard about them anymore.
Vaisnava aparadha is one of the greatest obstacles on the path of bhakti.
adiyen - Sat, 03 Aug 2002 17:03:17 +0530
Not in any way supporting Sudhir's article which is obviously written from a position of ignorance, Anangaji
But I must disagree with you that Sudhir's comments are typical of 'that whole group' and say that from my own extensive experience this is the very first time anyone in that group has ever made such statements publically, and that such type of slanderous 'preaching', though typical of other groups, is unknown in this one.
The exception might be the well-known old assertions that some devotees might have 'dead mantras' or might not have 'realisation', but these are abstract philosophical assertions from a certain logical perspective and no-one is ever mentioned by name.
What is shocking about Sudhir's attack is that it is ad-hominem against someone Sudhir clearly knows nothing about. In other words it is pure slander and you have my deepest sympathies.
adiyen - Sat, 03 Aug 2002 18:28:04 +0530
From my own cursory reading of Sudhira's site, I would divide what he says into two parts. The first part is what he says about Srila Tinkori Babaji, and this part I call slanderous because he says disrespectful and unbecoming things about someone he obviously doesn't know anything about. After that, however, Sudhir draws on the received teachings of Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati in a more philosophical critique of traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism, presenting BS's views on traditional Parivars. Many of these philosophical themes are familiar, and we have already dealt with them on these pages. Thus we ought not be too concerned.
For example, to the usual GMath assertion that GVaishnavism cannot be transmitted through families, we might respond that this is like the iconoclasts claim that Sri Murti cannot be god, because 'God is not stone or wood'. To which the Bhakta responds, 'Why not? Is not the Supreme unlimited?' In fact the GMath is appealing to just such iconoclastic thinking. Clearly the founders of GMath were very influenced by Protestantism, as were Brahmo Samaj, Arya Samaj, and, we might suggest the Bengali Vedantists of that era as well. Truly did Baba Premananda Bharati say of his Hindu predecessor preachers, 'They have not presented Hinduism as it is, free from western affectation'. Thus is Sudhir's attack repulsed.
adiyen - Sat, 03 Aug 2002 18:42:23 +0530
Sorry to be verbose, but I just wanted to propose that instead of complaining and trying to censor Sudhir (which might be futile) we instead counteract the slander by putting up positive discussions and posts on Sri Sri Kisori-Kisorananda, Sri Tinkori Babaji Maharaj, 108 prostrations at his glorious lotus feet.
Some Baba smaranam please!
My deepest pranams to all here,
Vancha kalpa tarubhyas cha
Kripa-sindhubhya eva cha
Patitanam pavane'bhyo
Vaishnave'bhyo namo namah!
Mina - Sat, 03 Aug 2002 19:08:47 +0530
Thanks for your kind replies, Adiyen and your thoughtful email. You're probably right that this really requires no action on our part and things will just play out to the advantage of everyone. I just thought it might help to at least make the webmaster at google.com aware of the situation so that he/she could make an informed decision about what to do. For those having trouble locating the article in question, just go to www.google.com and enter Tin Kudi Goswami in the search field. It should be your first entry in the hit list, at least it was last night.
Radhe Radhe!
At your service...
Mina - Sat, 03 Aug 2002 20:40:20 +0530
Just a few more thoughts on this, after mulling over it on my morning mountain bike ride.
It is not just about some philosophical footballs being kicked around in some World Cup Vaishnava soccer match in cyberspace. There are real politics out in the real world. Religious groups have rivalries and compete for both followers and funding, as Jagat has so eloquently written about recently. However, the lines of demarcation are really just imaginary and exist only in our minds. Some of Baba’s disciples are married to disciples of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami and some of Baba’s disciples are life members of ISKCON, even if they are not disciples of ACBVS. There was one Gaudiya Math sannyasi at Puri that used to come and visit Baba every day at Haridas Math during his final days when he was in a very physically debilitated state. This was because he had genuine love and respect for Baba. He also was very kind and friendly towards me, even though at the time I was shunned by some of the ISKCON people that knew about my having taken shelter of Baba.
This is just like the spider’s web of political intrigue described by Chanakya, with many interconnections in a vast network impossible to fully map out. Politically (at least in India) the various branches of the Sarasvata line are still very much the underdog and Baba is a direct descendant of Sri Nityananda Prabhu and Jahnava Mata, with deep roots in the Vaishnava community in India. For one of Sridhar Maharaj’s followers to take on that family by targeting one of its most prominent members in a smear campaign is like some average Joe on the street taking on the Rockefellers. It reminds me of the last scene in “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid” where the two of them go out to face a whole regiment of the Bolivian army with a couple of pistols.
Irrespective of spiritual or academic qualifications of any of the parties involved, these are just logistics in the political arena.
Also, as far as I know this is the first time anyone of the Sarasvata line has actually targeted a specific individual. Usually it is just a vague reference to a group living at Radha Kund. That is probably because their leaders have always been cognizant of the political ramifications and did not want to throw caution to the winds.
Radhapada - Sun, 04 Aug 2002 00:52:52 +0530
I have witnessed how a descendent of Sri Nityananda is honored by Vaisnavas of all sampradayas in a temple near Kesi ghat. Ananta Das Pandit was giving a lecture and there must have been around 300-400 Vaisnavas of different parivars sitting down hearing the lecture. A descendent of Sri Nityananda from Calcutta arrived in the temple and everyone stood up and offered respects. A few days later he gave patha and the temple was packed with about 500 or so devotees.
Madhava - Sun, 04 Aug 2002 12:05:37 +0530
QUOTE(Ananga @ Aug. 03 2002,06:05)
This individual (apparently a follower of Sridhar) has written an absurd article on his website in which he depicts 108 Tin Kudi Goswami as a mere derelict. I realize that this in itself is just typical of that whole group. The problem is that when you run a google search with Baba's name the first hit is Sudhir's website with that article. You can complain at this URL, just click on the link for google search and let them know how unacceptable this situation is.
I don't think you can seriously make much out of contacting Google. They won't start tweaking their database because of this. Otherwise they'd be amending their databases all day long when everyone sends them requests and counter-requests. They don't have the time nor the interest to act as judges for the quarrels between various religious groups and whom not.
If you'd want to contact someone, you'd have to contact their www hosting provider ( http://he.net/ ) and quote from both the site and their terms of service ( http://www.he.net/tos.html ) showing how they have violated the TOS, possibly referring to the present US laws applicable in California (TOS #6 / #16) which prohibit religious hate campaigns. Actually religious hate speeches are permitted by US law as long as no criminal acts (intimidation, vandalism, mudrer etc.) occur. Of course you could also sue him for insulting a citizen of India or find other relevant laws to present to their www hosting provider. I would personally not bother.
Perhaps you could just write a letter to Sudhir himself and ask him to clarify his position. Alternatively you could write a polite open letter questioning the decency of indiscriminate slander directed towards widely respected saints after their departure, specifying the case if Tin Kudi Baba as a case example, and requesting Sudhir to respond in public since the initial text was a public assault from his side.
To turn to the positive side, if we can collect enough articles and stories about Tin Kudi Baba, I will be happy to set up a separate page for him and have it ranked over Sudhir's article in all major search engines. So, keep posting. Would you like to invite Nitai Das over? He has some nice things in his Bhajan Kutir.
Mina - Sun, 04 Aug 2002 23:37:38 +0530
I received a copy of Jagat's email to Sudhir on the matter, which is very eloquent and poignant. If anyone would like to read it, please contact him, and I am sure he would be happy to send you a copy.
As Adiyen pointed out to me in an email communication on the matter, it was probably just a knee jerk reaction on Sudhir's part subsequent to material that he only recently discovered on Nitai's bhajan kutir site (which I am reasonably sure everyone here has already read), which is not exactly favorable to the Sarasvata line So, perhaps once he has had a chance to rethink his position and has heard from respected scholars like Jagat, he will edit his article accordingly and bring it back within the bounds of good taste and good sense. As we all know, the schooling in Vaishnava etiquette is somewhat lacking in certain circles where lip service to showing respect takes the form of simply addressing everyone as 'Prabhu', which ostensibly is there to cultivate the proper mindset. However there are other problems created by hierarchical pyramid structures, as we all well know.
My own opinion, for what it's worth, has always been that it is better to give all Vaishnavas the benefit of the doubt as to the level of respect they command from other Vaishnavas (or at least that they are entitled to for their qualifications). Yes, the concept of the madhyama platform seems to fit a good discriminatory attitude for one's internal barometer, but the outward protocols are quite another matter. I think everyone gets the gist of that, but I can elaborate upon it, if anyone so desires.
At your servce...
Mina - Mon, 05 Aug 2002 19:41:10 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Aug. 04 2002,09:35)
To turn to the positive side, if we can collect enough articles and stories about Tin Kudi Baba, I will be happy to set up a separate page for him and have it ranked over Sudhir's article in all major search engines. So, keep posting. Would you like to invite Nitai Das over? He has some nice things in his Bhajan Kutir.
I think getting the search engines to pick up our own articles as higher in the rankings is a splendid idea. I added a sentence about Baba to the home page of yogapitha.org, but it has yet to be picked up as a hit by google. I do not know how long it takes to cycle through for them.
Nitai Das is on vacation with his family for several days, but I will discuss it with him when he returns.
I would like to get some writings as well from Jagat, who spent time with Baba and our guru bhai in Los Angeles, Jagadish Das, which we could add to the page. Also, if we could get a contribution from someone in the Gaudiya community in India, that would be a plus. We have Dr. Kapoor's bio, which is probably the most important piece. I wanted to make a short documentary film about Baba at one point back in the early eighties and attempted to enlist the financial backing of a guru bhai in Calcutta, but was having trouble communicating the intention and tone of the project while shouting over the old phone system back then, which barely worked.
Mina - Wed, 07 Aug 2002 21:48:11 +0530
Part of the problem for Baba's Western sisyas is that there are so few of us. To my knowledge the total is nine: Nitai Das and his ex-wife, Jagadananda Das (formerly Yogananda Das) and his ex-wife, Mahavegavati Dasi, Jayasacinandan Das and his ex-wife, Sudevi Dasi (formerly Sikhandini Dasi), Jagadish Das, one woman I don't remember the name of and yours truly. As far as I know of the nine only three or four of us continue to have an interest in Vaishnavism. Krishna Charan Das Babaji only had a single Western disciple that I know of, Jagannath Das, who tragically took his own life several years ago. Lalita Prasad Thakur only had a handful, and only two of them to my knowledge are still active in the tradition, Jagat and Gadadhar Pran Das.
Pandit Ananta Das Babaji, on the other hand has quite a few Western disciples. I am not sure of the number that the late Madrasi Krishnadas Babaji had.
My point is that there is strength in numbers, especially when rivalries with other sects are involved. Of course in India we have the numbers, since Baba had over ten thousand disciples there, but they are for the most part not likely to be very interested in this situation
Madhava - Sat, 10 Aug 2002 05:21:13 +0530
One problem in regards to www exposure is multiple spellings. If you have look at the Google, for instance, looking for the keyword "Tinkadi", you'll find multiple good hits.
http://www.google.com/search?....+Search
"Tinkudi" as well:
http://www.google.com/search?....+Search
Only the spelling "Tin Kudi" gives the Sudhir article, while "Tin Kadi" gives nothing even remotely related.
I am right now revising the "Meditations" section, and "Saints" > Tinkadi Baba will be up as well. But http://www.raganuga.com/tinkudi/ will come whenever the content is together.
premananda - Wed, 14 Aug 2002 23:42:31 +0530
From Www.Istagosthi.Org:
By "radheshyam":
I just read an article on "sudhirgoswami.com" where the authority of the "goswami" says that Sri Lalita Prasad Thakur was an ASS!
The reason is that he allegedly adressed his father, Sri Bhaktivinod Thakur, as "Baba", and not "Radha".
The flaw, as usual, is lack of knowledge about the real facts. These people don´t know that SLPT was an initiated sisya of SBVT. SLPT worshipped his father internally as Kamala Manjari, and did therefore not have a mundane conception of his father and guru. The elder brother of SLPT is the one who called him a "sahajiya" for this and other reasons. Anybody who practices raganuga sadhana is a sahajiya according to Gaudiya Math fanatics. They think that only they have the proper conception.
Then why is it that these so-called gurus don´t even know what is written in the literature of the previous acharyas? For example, Sudhir´s siksa guru claims that the waking of Radha-Krishna is described in the first verse of Prema Bhakti Candrika! He then goes on to say that anybody who meditates on this will go to hell and become a sahajiya.
LOL!
Madhava - Thu, 15 Aug 2002 00:05:46 +0530
To avoid having people browse through all those heaps of junk at Istagosthi.org, here's the URL for the thread.
http://istagosthi.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?u...ic&f=1&t=000524
If you scroll down to about half-way of the page, you'll find Jagat's correspondence with Sudhir on this matter. I hope Jagat will post them here too along with some thoughts on the matter.
adiyen - Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:24:59 +0530
Can I just say here for the record, that Sudhir is attacking devotees who were so absorbed in Krishna Consciousness that they chanted 3 lakhs Nama per day, and that meanwhile Sudhir is giving his unconditional support to an 'acharya' who apparently finds Krishna Consciousness so boring that he has a TV set in his room to watch the cricket? And part of this acharya's (and his guru's) claim to precedence is his being born in a Kulin Smarta caste (who traditionally look down on Vaishnavas, even 'high-caste' ones, as upstarts) who then took to Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Is a Smarta who takes to Vaishnavism superior to others? Is this retained when he spends his days watching TV? What can Sudhir mean then when he attacks 'seminal transmission' of spiritual qualification? Tell me finally which group of the two sounds like Sahajiya, the followers of the Smarta 'TV acharya', or the followers of those practicing deep prolonged Nama-sadhana?
Madhava - Fri, 16 Aug 2002 18:38:39 +0530
Had I read the part about watching cricket from the TV from anywhere else I'd probably have dismissed it as yet another gossip, but knowing that you hanged around there for long enough to know what's going on on the backstage, I can't. Sheesh.
adiyen - Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:16:46 +0530
Hot gossip from an eye-witness, though there is no attempt to conceal this, any visitor can see. They often ask, 'Why is he just watching TV and not chanting japa? Ahh, but in the city of Ramakrishna, it is just 'Lila', isn't it? After all, this the TV age, especially now in India! The Math followers are also permiated with a belief in mystical superiority without any need of doing actual sadhana, though they go through the motions for appearances sake (this is all very mysterious and vague). A kind of GV 'shaktipat' for which they use the euphemism 'connection'. One supposedly gets a 'connection' to the highest Rupanuga Sampradaya without need of sadhana or qualification. Yet the administerers of this 'connection' must be high Bengali Smarta-born.
Sridhar Maharaj has said, 'My family used to look down on Vaishnavas as usupers of the status of Brahmins' (which properly belonged only to Smartas and other 'high' castes). Of course he converted to Vaishnavism, but still he noted, 'My Guru (BSS) was actually of a lower caste than I'. I think the Smartas regard the Kayasthas as Sudra fully.
And why else is Gayatri Mantra so important to them? It is the Mantra of Brahmanas. True for a high Brahmana to give it somewhat freely is a bit revolutionary, but not so much nowadays. Very mysterious, open to manipulation.
A lot of the underlying psychology of Sudhir's 'siksha' can be explained by these facts, as well as the current acharya's obvious lack of real enthusiasm for GV except as a job, a formality. The two acharyas have constructed large temple complexes in their respective birthplaces, run by their own families, which all devotees are expected to worship at and respect. It is a family business indeed. Yet Sudhir attacks 'seminal transmission'.
People who live in glass houses are very foolish if they throw stones!
Madhava - Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:22:58 +0530
I'm still missing it, which one among the two is the cricket enthusiast?
adiyen - Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:33:51 +0530
Srila Govinda Maharaj has been a sports fan since his youth, when he used to play soccer regularly near the Gaudiya Math, a prelude to his joining. He likes to keep up with the cricket, and the news, and whatever...He will put on the TV sometimes during the Brahma-muhurta before dawn, to catch the early bulletins.
Govinda Maharaj is the current Math acharya, who commands Sudhir's total allegiance. Tripurari Maharaj, who does not support Govinda Maharaj to the extent expected, has also been attacked by Sudhir. That is how loyal Sudhir is to Govinda Maharaja.
Srila Sridhar Maharaj, the SCSMath Founder, disciple of BSS, passed away in 1988, appointing Govinda Maharaja his successor. His taped instructions are still being published, however.
Madhava - Fri, 16 Aug 2002 19:47:18 +0530
Good grief. Will they soon attack with cricket bats? What madness!
adiyen - Fri, 16 Aug 2002 20:01:17 +0530
Actually they mostly keep to themselves, like the followers of Siddha Swarup (never mind if you don't know him) and all of this is just meant to guard their flocks from us 'poachers'. They are not aggressive public preachers. If Govinda Maharaj hears that Sudhir has stirred a hornet's nest (but actually just a bunch of thoughtful butterflies?) he will tell him to back down. It is Sudhir's American spirit, he can't help but go 'big' with this. Also he's stuck now and can't back down.
Madhava - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:53:43 +0530
With Jagadananda's consent, I am posting here the correspondence he had with Sudhir in this regard.
Madhava - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:55:44 +0530
Madhava - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:57:06 +0530
Jagadananda’s second letter to Sudhir
Dear Sudhir Maharaj,
Dandavats,
Other than my reflection on your rather distasteful dealing with the Tin Kudi Goswami question, I wish you all the best and all success. I have heard good things about your ashram from a friend who recently visited. May the mission of Lord Chaitanya be spread to every corner of the world.
On the other hand, I also heard that you speak ill of Tripurari Maharaj. This does not sit well with me either. You seem to feel that Sridhar Maharaj insisted that all his siksha disciples give their unconditional commitment to Govinda Maharaj. I hardly think this likely. Srila Prabhupada's disciples were not bound by that kind of obligation to Sridhar Maharaj's mission. I have heard this from many people, including Tripurari Maharj. Of course, you are free to do what you feel is most meaningful for your spiritual life, but it hardly seems productive to attempt to undermine Tripurari Maharaj's credibility by telling everyone that Sridhar Maharaj "withdrew his mercy" from him. It seems clear to me that "withdrawing mercy" is not so easily done.
Another observation -- You don't appear to give much prominence to A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada on your site. No doubt there are a million other sites that are devoted to Srila Prabhupada, so what need of just one more ? Nevertheless, it seems normal to expect that some kind of prominent acknowledgement would be found on the front page of your site. This is maryada, which I am sure you agree is an essential part of the Gaudiya Vaishnava path.
Let us be generous with all who glorify the Holy Name. Niggardliness is not becoming to a Vaishnava.
I beg to remain your servant,
Jagadananda Das.
Madhava - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:00:04 +0530
Sudhir’s reply to Jagadananda
Dear Jagadananda Das,
My dandabat pranam—albeit at a distance.
avaisnava-mukhodgirnam putam hari-kathamrtam
sravanam naiva kartavyam sarpocchistam yatha payah
In this sloka Srila Sanatan Goswami is not mocking nor vilifying those who engage in hari katha. It is a stricture to help us discern spiritual substance. Tin Kori Goshai may have been a “kindhearted gentleman,” but a kindhearted gentleman, engaged in spiritual practices, is not necessarily a siddha purush. The remarks I have made are based upon Srila Sridhar Maharaja’s own observations:
“…whose highest qualification is that he dresses in canvas. Not cloth but canvas dress. Canvas dressing has made him so famous to the foolish. They have found everything in the canvas. Canvas dress surpasses everything in a Vaishnava sannyasi. Foolish people. Those who have not got the inner eye of appreciation of what is what, will have to take shelter of external calculation. They have no idea of positive attainment— what is the criterion, the standard of vairagyam. Only by external abnegation or willful self-assertion, by physical privation—these are the charm for the foolish people. Those that are born to be deceived.
“Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna—physical calculation—Gaur Haribol, Gaur Haribol!
“The naga sannyasis do not even care for a cloth. They are all naked. Should they be the guru of this Tin Kori Goshai? …. Tin Kori—the name is also appropriate. Name has got no sign of a Vaishnava dasa—Three Shells. The wealth is the three shells: sattva, rajah, tamah….”
Srila Sridhar Maharaja did not recognize him as a substantial Vaishnava (avaishnava). I have faith in his judgment.
Furthermore Rupa Goswami warns of the so-called kindhearted as lacking divine substance:
nisarga-picchila-svante tad-abhyasa-pare’pi ca |
sattvabhasam vinapi syuh kvapy asru-pulakadayah ||
Sri Rupa’s caveat is not sectarian positioning nor malicious, but a caution from the adept of bhakti rasa. Rather, to imitate is to mock the siddha purush. This point you fail to grasp and in so doing rush to defend the lower while offending the higher.
Which brings us to your assertions concerning Tripurari Swami. For the sake of accuracy Srila Sridhar Maharaja said the following regarding his installing Srila Govinda Maharaja as Acharya of Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math. Referring to “the ambitious party and those who want name and fame rather than the substance itself,” his exact words are excerpted here:
Srila Sridhar Maharaja: For those that have got no sraddha, they may go away. They may not accept. I do not care. I don’t accept them. If anyone has no recognition of this opinion of mine, I do not want them to live in the Mission. I drag them out.”
Dr. Asthana: But can they operate from outside and still operate as a part and parcel of you?
Srila Sridhar Maharaja: As a revolt. That is revolt—without sanction—anyone can do. I have deserted them. But they may do anything and everything as they wish and reap the results far from the spiritual world, from God. Unlawful.
Power may be extended and withdrawn also—I want to withdraw myself from them. Those that won’t have faith in my decision, I withdraw from them. It is not a fashion but a question of faith. If they have no such faith in me, I withdraw myself from them.
According to their faith—what to think? What to say? Those that do not obey me after my departure means automatically they will be left by me. Only it is a transaction of faith. No right but faith. If no faith in my word, they are automatically rejected… my disciples also, if what they do Govinda Maharaja does not accept, then they will be rejected.
If someone you know feels this is applicable to Tripurari Swami, that is their conclusion, and not something I am “telling everyone” nor, fo
r that matter, have told anyone.
He was recognized by Prabhupada as the “most expert of all our sellers” and consequently the “incarnation of book distribution.” He will be forever praised and respected for this service to Srila Prabhupada and the Krishna consciousness movement.
That he expresses some appreciation for the “siksha” of Srila Sridhar Maharaja is laudable. But it is understood, with threefold initiations (harinam, mantram, sannyas), that he is substantially a disciple of Srila Prabhupada. As such he need not profess allegiance to Srila Govinda Maharaja or Srila Sridhar Maharaja. That is his prerogative and not in question.
However, if someone approaches me, unsolicited, and enquires sincerely as to one’s qualification as a substantial representative of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and his line, I must give an honest opinion. Invoking the issue of allegiance to Govinda Maharaja is a red herring meant to deflect from actual events. When Srila Sridhar Maharaja sought Tripurari Swami’s consent to release one of his disciples, Tripurari Swami refused and thereby challenged Srila Sridhar Maharaja’s judgment. Srila Sridhar Maharaja considered this impertinent (maryada vyatikrama). It is from that time, circa 1987, that Tripurari Swami’s nascent relationship with Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Math was aborted. Srila Govinda Maharaja tried, behind closed doors, to repair his relationship with Srila Sridhar Maharaja—not the inverse. That he advertises himself as a “siksha disciple” of Srila Sridhar Maharaja appears to be a marketing strategy and not unlike the professional who boasted, “I have read Bhagavatam before Gaur Kishore Das Babaji.”
I understand the two of you have developed a close working relationship over the years and collaborate on publishing projects. As his Sanskrit/ Bengali translator you may have inadvertently become his de facto supplier of prakrta rasa. How far he has come under your influence I do not know, but your romance for one another is telling. I must say to you straight that I do not accept either one of you individually, or the two of you working in collusion, as qualified to assess nistha, ruci, ashakti, bhava etc.. In fact, I find this ludicrous. Srila Sridhar Maharaja considered you a “sahajiya” and your gurus as sahajiya. Knowingly or unknowingly, if Tripurari Swami has come under your influence it is deplorable.
As an aside, I object to your mundane portrayal of Srila Rupa Goswami, as well as the offensive misconceptions your mentor Dimock has given regarding Srila Ramananda Raya, Prabhodananda Saraswati Thakur and others.
Lastly, you say that I do not “give much prominence” to Srila Prabhupada on my site. For the last 22 years I have been under the shelter of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and Srila Govinda Maharaja. To falsely advertise myself as having an intimate relationship with Srila Prabhupada would be misleading and dishonest. On the contrary, however fallen I may be, if I have any credit, it is that by promoting the conceptions of Srila Sridhar Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada has become known as a shaktyavesh avatar. My heart is happy and dancing with that.
But it is with sadness that I write these words to you. To paraphrase the words of Srila Saraswati Thakur: I fear you have burned the lotus of your own good fortune.
With lamentation,
Bhakti Sudhir Goswami
n.b. Still, if your brother “removes offensive statements” regarding Saraswati Thakur it will come down.
Madhava - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:06:30 +0530
Jagadananda’s reply to Sudhir
Dear Sudhir Maharaj,
My dandavats to you. Thank you for taking the time to write a calm account of your views, quoting Sridhar Maharaj. I will read it closely and if I can find the time will try to answer properly.
In general, though, it only makes me sadder to see these criticisms come from Sridhar Maharaj himself, as I hold him in great respect. It is my general objection to the Gaudiya Math that they are so imbued with the notion of themselves as the sole purveyors of Srila Rupa Goswami's message that the only things they can say about other Vaishnavas who commit themselves exclusively to the chanting of the Holy Name are negative. Yet they seem always able to justify this faultfinding with appeals to necessity and their preaching duty. Whatever, I hardly agree with it. I believe that socially and spiritually we can make more progress by accentuating the positive in others rather than the negative.
As far as Nitai is concerned, he is a friend, but I have no control over him and what he does any more than I have any control over Tripurari, or he over me. I personally do not approve of the language or even much of the content in Nitai's articles on Saraswati Thakur, and I have told him so. On the other hand, Tripurari and I also disagree on certain issues, but I must say that I find him to be a gentleman and a progressive thinker in many ways.
Your remarks about Tin Kori are really laughable. Saraswati Thakur gave out names like Puri, Bharati, Vana, Yayabar, Audulomi, and Gavastanemi -- all great Vaishnava names. Tripurari itself is hardly a great Gaudiya Vaishnava name immediately eliciting thoughts of Vrindavan. Nor for that matter is "Siddhanta Saraswati." "Bhakti" is only a little cosmetic addition. Tin Kori Goswami's devotional name was "Kishorikishorananda Das," though he was known popularly as Tin Kori. To go from there to the three modes of nature is pure maliciousness. As far as wearing burlap being the essence of his spiritual perfection, this is also pure maliciousness. Tin Kori Baba chanted the Holy Name without seeking labh puja or pratishtha. That is the essence of his greatness. Burlap was circumstantial. I doubt you will find any disciple of his who will say or believe the contrary. This all stems out of attempt to defuse criticism of the Gaudiya Math's own sannyasi vesh, which the Gaudiya Math can only handle by using the "best defense is offense" strategy. In this case, being offensive is hardly the best defense.
As far as the Lalita Prasad Thakur "baba, badha, radha" word game played by Saraswati Thakur is concerned, I find these things are best left to those two brothers, who are probably tearing each other's ghaghras somewhere by the eternal Radha Kund, even as we speak. Faith in one's father as spiritual master should in no way impede one's spiritual life, rather it should enhance it. The Lalita Prasad Thakur I knew was dedicated to Srimati Radharani, so this bit of word play is completely meaningless to me.
Anyway, I am sure we both have better things to do with our time. You may be interested in a project we are working on at http://www.granthamandira.org/news/ in which we are presenting various Sanskrit and Bengali texts in their original forms. We have only just begun, but many texts are available already. I am currently on the last legs of doing the Bhagavad Gita with six commentaries, which has obsessed me completely. Hopefully, this service will be useful to Vaishnavas and scholars of all descriptions, regardless of their sectarian affiliation.
The necessity you feel to add "at a distance" and "with lamentation" gave me a chuckle. May Mahaprabhu bless us all with his love.
Your servant,
Jagadananda Das.
Madhava - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 01:09:41 +0530
In concluding, a brief note written by Tripurari Maharaja to Jagadananda about Sridhar Maharaja's statement:
"Again, I do no think that SG ccurately represented SM on Tin Kori babaji. I personally heard him say that he could not comment on him because he did not know him. However he was told once that you and others left LPT and went to Tin Kori, whose claim to fame was his canvass dress and thus he made the reply cited in part by SG."
Sri Hari - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 05:38:04 +0530
QUOTE(Ananga @ Aug. 04 2002,13:07)
I received a copy of Jagat's email to Sudhir on the matter, which is very eloquent and poignant. If anyone would like to read it, please contact him, and I am sure he would be happy to send you a copy.
Jay Radhe Jay Radhe Jay Sri Radhe!
Dandavats for all Vaisnavas in this Site.
Yes, how can I get in touch with him ?
Madhava - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 13:57:20 +0530
You can get in touch with him by clicking Members > Jagat and choosing to send an e-mail to him. Or otherwise just click here.
The letter Ramdas mentions is duplicated in this thread, though. Click here to read it.
Mina - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 20:35:58 +0530
I would not attach too much significance to TV viewing in itself, but one does have to wonder what the need is to keep up on news reports in the wee hours of the morning. Perhaps he spotted some infommercials on the latest exercise equipment he plans to purchase or the new shampoo that miraculously grows hair on balding men. :satisfied:
Just a general comment on television: Although it is a quicker way to browse the news than picking up a newspaper, and who really wants to spend much of their time reading about current events? I do not think there is anything wrong with keeping up with what's going on in the world, especially for those raising a family and holding a job. The content of shows is also somewhat wanting as far as overall quality. It seems the better writers are doing scripts for the big screen, although there are flashes of brilliance from time to time on TV dramas and comedies. What is kind of amazing is what advertisers get away with and not get sued. The classic case is those commercials for the zero percent financing on cars that run the fine print for a second or two, making it impossible to read unless you're a demigod. Maybe the TV acharya's math needs its fleet of sports cars upgraded.
:satisfied:
If that spiritual leader likes to watch cricket, I do not really have an issue with that. However, if he thinks that high caste automatically confers a higher realization, then that is a problem.
Sorry for rambling on about a mundane topic, considering the venue here, which is hardly worldly.
Mina - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:15:20 +0530
I wonder how many hours a week Sridhar Maharaj spends surfing the net for sports websites. Maybe he likes the ones on the ladies pro golf tour, or the ones on Anna Kournikova.
Madhava - Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:24:15 +0530
QUOTE(Ananga @ Aug. 17 2002,11:45)
I wonder how many hours a week Sridhar Maharaj spends surfing the net for sports websites. Maybe he likes the ones on the ladies pro golf tour, or the ones on Anna Kournikova.
Sridhar Maharaja departed a good while ago, in 1988 to be exact. He's surfing in different dimensions these days. You must be speaking of the present president acarya instead.
kanai - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 00:11:21 +0530
Ramdas,
It is succesor you are speaking of.Srila Sridhara Maharaja was original founder of Caitanya Sarasvata Math and he surely was not interested in cricket and tv. :
:
Sri Hari - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 02:51:52 +0530
QUOTE(Ananga @ Aug. 17 2002,11:45)
I wonder how many hours a week Sridhar Maharaj spends surfing the net for sports websites. Maybe he likes the ones on the ladies pro golf tour, or the ones on Anna Kournikova.
Nitya-lila -pravista omvisnupada astottara-sat Sri Srimad Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Dev- Gosvami Maharaj , is the One who ispired so many Vaisnavas in the pass and will continue to do that for Centuries. If some one by misfortune did not have the chance to meet him or never read his books than this person has to be extremely careful because he (Srila Sridhar Mahara) is the embodiment of Sri Sri Radha Krishna Prema acclaimed by seniors Vaisnavas at his time and now days.
In the Srimad Bhagavatam (10.64.41), within the context of the narration of King Nrga, Svayam Bhagavan Sri Krishna informs the residents of Dvaraka:
vipra krtagasam api naiva druhyata mamakah
ghnantam bahu sapantam va namas-kuruta nityasah
"My dear relatives! Do not bear malice even toward brahmanas who are sinners and offenders. Even if they beat you or curse you,you should always offer obeisances unto them. Therefore do not maintain an attitude of contempt or disrespct toward them."
So I beg you with folded hands please do not do that !
Vaisnavadasanudasa
Harisaran das
Madhava - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 03:14:40 +0530
Though Sridhar Maharaja, as well as many others in the Gaudiya Math, are certainly extraordinary personalities, I am personally not surprised that others may not hold them in such a high esteem, given many of the statements they have leveled towards others outside of their respective lineages. This Tin Kudi word jugglery slander was one example. Another one I recently had the displeasure of reading is the following (Sermons of the Guardian of Devotion, Vol. Two): “Guru Maharaj clearly said that when we are in a lower position, smarana is injurious. Rather, we should take to kirtana. Kirtana prabhave, smarana haibe, se kale bhajana nirjjana sambhava. The Sahajiya school (imitationists) are more fond of smarana than kirtana. They are 'followers' of smarana. They lead a secluded life, and mentally they go on identifying themselves with a particular sakhi of their own age, her duty, her place of attendance in a particular place of Vrndavana, in a particular lila, under the guidance of a particular sakhi, and so on. They are required to go on meditating on all these things by their so-called guru. That is the process amongst the Sahajiya school, but we do not admit that. We consider it all false and imaginary. They are not fit for the plane. They do not have real sambandha-jnana, knowledge of what is what. They only go on with the habitual repetition of a particular mental speculation, but anarthanivrtti (purging of evils) or any other process based on it cannot be effected thereby. Their imagined achievement is sheer concoction. They are not aware of the facts - the ontological gradation from Viraja to Brahmaloka, Vaikuntha and Goloka. They are pukura-curiwale - 'pond thieves.' To think one can steal a pond is self-deception. We think that kind of 'smarana' to be something like self-deception.”
In the passage above, basically most of the classical Gaudiya raganuga tradition is lumped together and labeled among the sahajiya class of men. It would not require grand endeavors to point out the fallacy in the philosophical precepts which form the basis for the abovementioned passage. But worse than philosophical disagreements is this sahajiya-calling. I am really sick of it, and particularly so when there are no proper grounds for it.
kanai - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:03:43 +0530
Hari,
Although some may say what they want to i completely support this what you wrote about Srila Sridhara Maharaja.My guru sister which is living permanently on Radhakunda said to me that nobody there(permanent residents) don't have time for even knowing about some missions and movements.They do their bhajana.So, like Madhava and Radhapada both pointed to me in some of their messages it is just pointless to go on with that stuff.I know who Bhaktivedanta Swami,Srila Sridhara Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Maharaja even Narayana Maharaja are for me and i know what they did for me.I seriously don't care anymore about all those organizations and societies and maths they left after their departure.I look at them like my teachers with utmost respect and i always will,but me personally, i'm going for further education seriously.For me that is Nityananda parivara.
My sincere dandavats :cool:
Madhava - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:05:11 +0530
QUOTE
Nitya-lila -pravista omvisnupada astottara-sat Sri Srimad Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhar Dev- Gosvami Maharaj , is the One who ispired so many Vaisnavas in the pass and will continue to do that for Centuries. If some one by misfortune did not have the chance to meet him or never read his books than this person has to be extremely careful because he (Srila Sridhar Mahara) is the embodiment of Sri Sri Radha Krishna Prema acclaimed by seniors Vaisnavas at his time and now days.
One thing we need to recognize is that we are living in a very subjective realm. The nitya-lila-pravista-om-paramahamsa of one is a dreaded caste-gosvami of another, and the sahajiya-baba of one is the maha-bhagavat of another. One who is a doomed offender in the eyes of some may be doing just fine outside their vision. I know I am personally below the deepest hell in the worlds of people in a couple of places, but still I am doing pretty much all right, though nothing spectacular as of yet. Perhaps there is an expansion of myself somewhere in the hells of their worlds too. God only knows the mysteries of His creation.
kanai - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 05:56:51 +0530
Srila Sridhara Maharaja speaks of the people which are taking initiations and spiritual life cheaply.He does not address anybody in particular.I don't see words like babajis,Radhakunda,caste gowamis etc.By the way one of Srila Sridhara Maharajas books is Subjective evolution of consciousness.I don't know if i have any expansions in hell,since i was there during the war in my country,being hanged to a tree and in last second put down,being shoot at during the war, seeing dead and tortured and slaughtered pregnant women,children,old people,soldiers and so on and being robbed by the gang in USA.Therefore this life is not cheap for me and i do understand Srila Sridhara Maharaja in that way.I tend to look at the positive side of everything what i have experienced,studied(two universities),read and studied in spiritual ways in my life.That's why i always address devotees with respect and even if i say sometimes wrong things i apologize.I really mean that as i think like i have said month or two before, that devotees which are initiated by Srila Babaji Maharaja are fortunate.So those initiations and relationship with Guru is not to be taken cheaply just for show,name ,fame and adoration and that is what i do understand from Srila Sridhara Maharajas words for myself as i don't speak for others.When you take initiation you give a promise to Guru and that is not to be broken.That is why i am going to Radhakunda,to give a promise and keep it,learn as much as possible and start my advanced studies in Gaudhiya Vaisnavism and bhajana from a person which is more than a Guru for me,not blindly but because i am convinced that this is the most sacred thing in the universe for me.Dandavats from your tatooed and sincere
Sri Hari - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 08:54:28 +0530
QUOTE(kanai @ Aug. 17 2002,17:33)
Hari,
Although some may say what they want to i completely support this what you wrote about Srila Sridhara Maharaja.My guru sister which is living permanently on Radhakunda said to me that nobody there(permanent residents) don't have time for even knowing about some missions and movements.They do their bhajana.So, like Madhava and Radhapada both pointed to me in some of their messages it is just pointless to go on with that stuff.I know who Bhaktivedanta Swami,Srila Sridhara Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Maharaja even Narayana Maharaja are for me and i know what they did for me.I seriously don't care anymore about all those organizations and societies and maths they left after their departure.I look at them like my teachers with utmost respect and i always will,but me personally, i'm going for further education seriously.For me that is Nityananda parivara.
My sincere dandavats :cool:
Jay Radhe Jay Sri Radhe!
Dear Devotees,
With all humility I would like to say that I'm not here to defend any institution whatsoever, regardeless of any spirirual order, but I will stand for the wiser's advises and "respect" is one, if not the most importante tool for one's progress in the spiritual path. People from various religions that are not so advanced, if compered to the path of Bhakti, are really into propagate peace and understanding among human race. So, we got this Matchless gift given by Lord Caitanya and what we are doing...?
How could I compare my self with a "devotee"(any devotee) who dedicated his whole life to chant the Holy names of Nandanandana Sri Krishna and Brsabhanu-Suta and helped others to do the same? Just that IDEA it self has enough power to extract abeisances from my heart and I may pay my respect to
whoever do that. The help for one may not benefit others ,but is the Idea that I care,that Idealistc mind that cares and lives for it . It is there where my fighting goes for.
In order to preserve a good sense among those so called followers of Vaisnavism; please remember that, human form is very rare and Vaisnavas are not to be found everywhere but in the heart of those who deserves it. One could be in Radhakund and his mind in Vietinan or one could be in America and his mind be in Vrindavan... it is just a matter of how much one's is getting the mercy of the Vaisnavas and that will never happen through Vaisnava-aparadha.
Sri Krishna says to Uddhava:
para-svabava-karmani
na prasamsen na garhayet
visvam ekatmakam pasyan
praktya purusena ca
" One should neither praise nor condemn the act of others,all of which are the result of their situation within nature.Rather, he should remain aware of the single,unified character of the universe, which is a product of the combination of matter and spirit."
(SB 11.28.2)
from Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur's commentary on Upadesamrta, verse 2
Vaisnavadasanudasa
your smallest servant
harisaran das
Mina - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 08:57:54 +0530
Quote:
vipra krtagasam api naiva druhyata mamakah
ghnantam bahu sapantam va namas-kuruta nityasah
"My dear relatives! Do not bear malice even toward brahmanas who are sinners and offenders. Even if they beat you or curse you,you should always offer obeisances unto them. Therefore do not maintain an attitude of contempt or disrespct toward them."
So I beg you with folded hands please do not do that !
Vaisnavadasanudasa
Harisaran das >
I assumed wrong in who was being referred to. Sorry about that. I have edited my posts accordingly. I am not all that versed in Gaudiya Math history and lore, so forgive me if I do not always follow the play by play action. I think I'll avoid commenting any further on them, except in a general way.
Sri Hari - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 12:23:40 +0530
QUOTE(Ananga @ Aug. 17 2002,22:27)
"My dear relatives! Do not bear malice even toward brahmanas who are sinners and offenders. Even if they beat you or curse you,you should always offer obeisances unto them. Therefore do not maintain an attitude of contempt or disrespct toward them."
I assumed wrong in who was being referred to. Sorry about that. I have edited my posts accordingly. I am not all that versed in Gaudiya Math history and lore, so forgive me if I do not always follow the play by play action. I think I'll avoid commenting any further on them, except in a general way.
Radhe Radhe !
In the words of Krishnadasa Kaviraj Gosvami,
hladini karaya krsnera rasa asvadana
hladini dvara krina karan bhaktera posana
"Krishna's, hladini sakti allows Him to relish the flavors of love (rasa). Through the same hladini sakti,the Lord takes care of His devotees." (CC 1.4.60)
From "The Art of Sadhana" of Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Gosvami Maharaj
Your no sectarian
smallest servant
Harisaran das 
Madhava - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:13:37 +0530
QUOTE
Srila Sridhara Maharaja speaks of the people which are taking initiations and spiritual life cheaply.He does not address anybody in particular.I don't see words like babajis,Radhakunda,caste gowamis etc.
That's right. However, the doctrine he describes as sahajiya is an orthodox conclusion.
"They lead a secluded life, and mentally they go on identifying themselves with a particular sakhi of their own age, her duty, her place of attendance in a particular place of Vrndavana, in a particular lila, under the guidance of a particular sakhi, and so on. They are required to go on meditating on all these things by their so-called guru. That is the process amongst the Sahajiya school, but we do not admit that. We consider it all false and imaginary."
The guru-given siddha-deha is to be meditated upon in order to attain it. You'll find this in the writings of Jiva, Krishnadas Kaviraja, Narottama, Bhaktivinoda and so forth. Narottama says: sAdhane ye dhana cai siddha-dehe taha pai pakkAkakka mAtra sei vicAra -- "The treasure I covet during sadhana is what I will attain in siddha-deha, it is merely a question of its being ripe or unripe." Now, are unripe fruits false and imaginary?
Now, I will be very happy if someone will demonstrate to whom Sridhar Maharaja is referring if not the traditional raganuga practitioners who give siddha-pranali and instruct the initiate to contemplate as presented in the quote above. At least according to their parampara-system (descending knowledge), it applies to most of the raganuga folks outside their movement (as per BG Narasingha, Sudhir and Murlidhar).
Someone should do a global Search/Replace with the word sahajiya in all available literature. Something like this:
That would be fair enough, not? :cool:
adiyen - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:20:22 +0530
If someone here has spoken negatively of 'Sridhar' it was because they did not realise that Sridhar Maharaj has long ago passed away and thought that current offenses issuing from Sri Bhakti Sudhir were coming from him. Sudhir claims that Sridhar Maharaja criticised the hereditary Goswamis because their only spiritual qualification is their birth, so called 'seminal transmission'.
But Sridhar Maharaj chose his disciple, also his legally adopted son, BS Govinda Maharaja as successor. An important factor was said to be Govinda Maharaja's belonging to the same Bengali Smarta caste as Sridhar Maharaja. The Math devotees also formally honour the birth families of both Sridhar Maharaj and Govinda Maharaj, in special temples built in their birthplaces. So Sudhir's criticism of heredity as a factor in spiritual transmission does not seem to represent Sridhar Maharaja's views at all, unless Srila Sridhar Maharaj's actions contradict his words.
Surely for Gaudiya Vaishnavas the most obvious spiritual qualification is intense absorption in Nama Bhajan. The two great devotees Sudhira criticises both possessed this qualification. Meanwhile even insiders to the Math complain that visitors notice that Govinda Maharaja spends time watching TV in his room, when one would expect a Gaudiya Acharya to be absorbed in Japam. I am saying that even insiders of the Math in India are worried about what kind of example this sets. Of course Sridhar Maharaj used to show that he was absorbed in Nama Bhajan when he was present on earth.
Also this is not a new issue but has been worrying devotees for decades. It was the reason a large number of mostly Bengali long term Math residents left to join the late Bhakti Promoda Puri Maharaj years ago. It was the reason Govinda Maharaj's receiving the succession was challenged and had to be defended by a strong Will/Testament and the threat 'Whoever does not support Govinda Maharaj I withdraw my mercy from him'. Jagat may doubt it but it is there in writing.
Did anyone notice the blackmail in Sudhir's letter? 'nb if you withdraw statements about BSS I will withdraw mine'. But my point is that someone living in such an unsteady glasshouse should not make threats at all.
Madhava - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:42:02 +0530
QUOTE
Also this is not a new issue but has been worrying devotees for decades. It was the reason a large number of mostly Bengali long term Math residents left to join the late Bhakti Promoda Puri Maharaj years ago. It was the reason Govinda Maharaj's receiving the succession was challenged and had to be defended by a strong Will/Testament and the threat 'Whoever does not support Govinda Maharaj I withdraw my mercy from him'.
But why did he do it, then, appointing GM as his successor? Strange.
QUOTE
Did anyone notice the blackmail in Sudhir's letter? 'nb if you withdraw statements about BSS I will withdraw mine'. But my point is that someone living in such an unsteady glasshouse should not make threats at all.
Now we make up something even more heinous and spam the URL all over the place, and send him a mail stating "It will come down if your statements come down." The path of the Vaishnava?
:aargh:
kanai - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 18:02:07 +0530
Truth is always necessary to overcome illusion.
kanai - Sun, 18 Aug 2002 20:02:51 +0530
Apologies everyone.
Radhapada - Mon, 19 Aug 2002 16:11:01 +0530
Let's do our bhajan and forget about those who don't have faith in remembering the pastimes of Sri Radha and Krishna while meditating on ones parshada form as an associate of Sri Radha-Krsna. They are like bees trying to taste the outside jar of honey.
Let me not go there where there are other topics discussed, so that pain will not touch me. May my heart always be beautified by remembering Your lotusfeet. May I always be able to sing Your glories in the assembly of saints with a sweet and articulate voice and with an undisturbed mind. (Prema-bhakti candrika 40)
Radha and Krsna, the monarchs of my heart, are my shelter, in this life and the next. Those who have become the eternal associates of the Divine Couple, having become overwhelmed by Their blissful mutual love, sakhis and manjaris, are the necklace around my heart and around my neck. May this matter always remain in my heart. (Prema-bhakti candrika 42)
Sri Hari - Mon, 19 Aug 2002 21:19:03 +0530
QUOTE(kanai @ Aug. 18 2002,09:32)
I just wanted to add that without above mentioned,how can one actually go and then do Yogapitha seva ,any puja or mantra upasana, svarasiki, chant diksa mantras and other meditations as given by ones Guru?There is power in initiation,in parivara,in Guru but i have to be conscious and dedicated with my full faith,sincerity and attention to get the fruits of all that which is coming like product of my bhajana.Or during bhajana or meditation.I understand all of this as a very highly potent tool for ones bhajana. Please,write and explain to me if i am not correct or if there is any other explanations.Also,please forgive me for that big posting.
Thanks,
Thanks Prabhuji, you are help me to appreciate even more the glories of Vaisnavas. The Absolute Truth is completely
independent and He acts according to His own will. So, I pray to the Supreme Lord Sri Krishna to keep me under the influency of His genuine Bhaktas wherever they may be and will be.
I always will keep in my heart with great honor for every Vaisnava that came into my life and somehow or other helped my tender and fragil Sradha to fearlessly goes towards the infinity .
In the spirit of humility and deep understanding of himself as an infinitesimal Jivatma, Abhay Charan Das said:
"Personally, I have no hope for any direct service of the coming crores of birth in the sojourn of my life, but Iam confidente that some day or other I shall be delivered from this mire of delusion in wich I am at present so deeply sunk. Therefore let me with all my earnestness pray at the lotus feet of my divine master to allow me to suffer the lot for wich I am destined due to my past misdoings,but to let me have this power of recollection: that I am nothing but a tiny servant of the Almighty Absolute Godhead, realized through the unflinching mercy of my divine master.Let me therefore bow down at his lotus feet with all the humility at my command." on the advent of his Gurudeva in 1936
Prayers and instructions spoken by sincere Sadhakas, I wear on my neck with great joy and respect, hopping one day I will be able to come near by the shadow of they Bhakti.
Sincerely
Your smallest
servant
Harisaran das
kanai - Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:15:08 +0530
Thank you Hari,although i think that i cannot help even my little son which i am taking care of.I had realized that this posting just doesn't belong here,like one nice devotee which i highly respect ,wrote to me that it is just too open to write about those things.They are just too sacred and personal that i can speak or write of them.It is really the matter of ones personal advancement and bhajana, and i made mistake by opening myself too much to share my inner world. Also i have put it down because of certain siddhantic differences in Gaudiya Math quotes and teachings which are actually totally opposed and differ from books and standpoints of traditional Gaudiya Vaishnavism as Radhapada clearly have shown in posting after my one .Other than that i re-read (aside from Gaudiya Matha teachers)my quotes and what i really wrote, and it was really like self advertisement,which i didn't want to be,but it did appear like that. This great website for me is sadhu-sanga,some chat and friendship with all of you.Because i really try to love and respect devotees and people in general.
With respects and without being falsely humble
Sri Hari - Tue, 20 Aug 2002 01:47:38 +0530
QUOTE(kanai @ Aug. 19 2002,12:45)
This great website for me is sadhu-sanga,some chat and friendship with all of you.Because i really try to love and respect devotees and people in general.
With respects and without being falsely humble
I share the same feelings about this Web with you!
I do appreaciate the help I'm getting from this Site.
Your smallest servant
Harisaran das