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Harvard-Kyoto font for download - Veni HK Serif



Madhava - Tue, 10 May 2005 00:05:31 +0530
Since most of us input Sanskrit and Bengali texts in Harvard-Kyoto, as it's by far the fastest method I've come across, here's a font I crunched together to make the work more comfortable.

The font available for download, Veni HK Serif, is based on Bitstream's open-source font, Vera, and has been modified to display conventional diacritic characters in place of the capital letters used in Harvard-Kyoto.

[attachmentid=1527]

~ the relevant character set ~

The character "d" with an open dot under has been chosen to represent the gau.DIya letter, "y" with a dot below on the right side has been chosen for the other Bengali "y". Some of the more exotic characters (see the full H-K transliteration here) hve been excluded. This is all open to feedback.

The font is available as OTF (OpenType Font), making it cross-compatible with most modern operating systems.

[attachmentid=1528]
Attachment: VeniHKSerif.zip
Attachment: Image
Madhava - Tue, 10 May 2005 00:05:31 +0530
Since most of us input Sanskrit and Bengali texts in Harvard-Kyoto, as it's by far the fastest method I've come across, here's a font I crunched together to make the work more comfortable.

The font available for download, Veni HK Serif, is based on Bitstream's open-source font, Vera, and has been modified to display conventional diacritic characters in place of the capital letters used in Harvard-Kyoto.

[attachmentid=1527]

~ the relevant character set ~

The character "d" with an open dot under has been chosen to represent the gau.DIya letter, "y" with a dot below on the right side has been chosen for the other Bengali "y". Some of the more exotic characters (see the full H-K transliteration here) hve been excluded. This is all open to feedback.

The font is available as OTF (OpenType Font), making it cross-compatible with most modern operating systems.

[attachmentid=1528]
Attachment: VeniHKSerif.zip
Attachment: Image
Madhava - Tue, 10 May 2005 00:09:50 +0530
And here's a sample document to test it with.

[attachmentid=1530]
Attachment: Bhagavat_tattva_vijnana.doc
Madhava - Tue, 10 May 2005 19:11:02 +0530
Did anyone try this out? I see seven downloads (and 14 of the sample document laugh.gif which isn't going to be of much interest if you don't work with transliterated documents, there's no translation included).
ananga - Tue, 10 May 2005 23:25:34 +0530
My OS is too old to accept OpenType fonts (Windows ME). sad.gif Could you make a TrueType version?

It's an excellent idea Madhava, what software did you use to do make the font? Is it open source or alternatively not too expensive?



My preference for Y would be a y with a dot on top and to be extra pedantic, just to the right hand side so that the glyph bears some resemblance to a letter j (which it sounds like).

For ".D" I like the method used in old versions of the Iskcon songbook where they used r with a dot on top. if only cos "ami boro duhkhi" looks less wrong than "ami bodo duhkhi". I do understand though that r-circle is in the IPA but it took me a while to actually work out the difference between the two.

In early editions of the iskcon book they used a tilda above the vowel for chandrabindu and in later editions they used an n with a dot underneath it which is clumsy. Tricky to implement the chandrabindu and still be portable over any system? Reading the typography pages at the microsoft website you can do some fab stuff with placement of glyphs and substitution of ligatures. Perhaps the chandrabindu could be over the previous character above where the macron would be.

Did you like the tilda idea? It seems better than the alternative of G="n with dot on top". We should avoid a one to many correspondance from HK to glyphs if at all possible.

Have you had any ideas how to write বউ, লইলে. I like Jagat's idea of baŁ and laÔle to distinguish the words from বৌ and লৈলে

Madhava - Wed, 11 May 2005 00:44:38 +0530
QUOTE
Windows 95, 98 and ME support OpenType fonts that use TrueType outlines. For OpenType fonts that use PostScript outlines, ATM 4.1 or ATM Light 4.1 has to be installed. Windows 95, 98 and ME applications (apart from MS Office and some other programs) do not support the extended character set of OpenType fonts.

http://www.prepressure.com/fonts/opentype02.htm

ATM 4.1 light is a free download.
Madhava - Wed, 11 May 2005 01:03:42 +0530
QUOTE(ananga @ May 10 2005, 06:55 PM)
My preference for Y would be a y with a dot on top and to be extra pedantic, just to the right hand side so that the glyph bears some resemblance to a letter j (which it sounds like).

Hmm, a bit on the right side? Isn't that a bit of a stretch? I was thinking of placing it down to bring it closer to the way the original looks...


QUOTE
For ".D" I like the method used in old versions of the Iskcon songbook where they used r with a dot on top. if only cos "ami boro duhkhi" looks less wrong than "ami bodo duhkhi". I do understand though that r-circle is in the IPA but it took me a while to actually work out the difference between the two.

Whatever works, I'm fine with that. Peculiar though that in the original script the difference is nothing but the dot under. Other insights, anyone else?


QUOTE
In early editions of the iskcon book they used a tilda above the vowel for chandrabindu and in later editions they used an n with a dot underneath it which is clumsy. Tricky to implement the chandrabindu and still be portable over any system? Reading the typography pages at the† microsoft website you can do some fab stuff with placement of glyphs and substitution of ligatures. Perhaps the chandrabindu could be over the previous character above where the macron would be.

The character can have zero width and toss the chandrabindu x amount left from the position. That isn't a problem.

However what's H-K for chandrabindu?




QUOTE
Have you had any ideas how to write বউ, লইলে. I like Jagat's idea of baŁ and laÔle to distinguish the words from বৌ and লৈলে

In other words, baU and laIle? (I'm not sure you got it right above, it read laJle to me.)

However I wonder how this'll work in conversions. There'll have to be an extra step there to first convert all whatever-I's and whatever-U:s to something distinguishable, otherwise they'll just convert to long I and U, which isn't what we're after.

We need to work on a standard that will keep the conversions lossless.
ananga - Wed, 11 May 2005 02:34:10 +0530
definitely ~ for chandrabindu, another word for ~ is tilde (pronounced tilda). BTW Tilda is the premium make of basmati rice here in england. definitely not G="n with dot on top" though.
Madhava - Wed, 11 May 2005 02:38:45 +0530
QUOTE(ananga @ May 10 2005, 10:04 PM)
definitely ~ for chandrabindu, another word for ~ is tilde (pronounced tilda). BTW Tilda is the premium make of basmati rice here in england. definitely not† G="n with dot on top" though.

But that's a separate character anyway.
Kalkidas - Wed, 11 May 2005 03:41:53 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ May 9 2005, 09:35 PM)
The font available for download, Veni HK Serif, is based on Bitstream's open-source font, Vera, and has been modified to display conventional diacritic characters in place of the capital letters used in Harvard-Kyoto.

[attachmentid=1527]

~ the relevant character set ~




I don't know Bengali letters quite well, so can somebody provide me reference for letters in discussion and their equivalents in HK and Veni HK Serif font?

- a; - A; - i; - I; - u; - U; - R; - RR; - L; - LL; - e; - ai; - o; - au;
- ka; - kha; - ga; - gha; - Ga;
- ca; - cha; - ja; - jha; - Ja;
- Ta; - Tha; - Da; - DHa; - Na;
- ta; - tha; - da; - dha; - na;
- pa; - pha; - ba; - bha; - ma;
- ya; - ra; - la;
- za; - Sa; - sa; -ha;
- M (chandrabindu); - H (visarga);
-----
- ? (rra);
- ? (rha);
- ? (yya);
- ? (ra2);
- ? (ra3).
Madhava - Wed, 11 May 2005 03:59:09 +0530
This ought to clarify it. The chandrabindu isn't in place nor are the changes Ananga suggested implemented yet. I had to attach "a" to chandrabindu etc. as it wouldn't display without.

[attachmentid=1539]
Attachment: Image
Madhava - Wed, 11 May 2005 05:06:39 +0530
Ananga, with regards to ~, looking at the full H-K scheme, it seems & is already allocated for that. (Anunasika and chandrabindu are synonymous as far as I know.)

I haven't a clue over the last two "r":s given in the chart Kalkidas posted. Are they actually used in Bengali?

While I'm at it, would someone care to comment on the following:

CODE
upadhmaniya - f
jihvamuliya - x
udatta -;
svarita - :

Udatta, anudatta and svarita are concerned with the pitch in Vedic hymns, while upadhmaniya and jihvamuliya are marks indicating how ardha-visarga is pronounced. (reference) I realize they aren't a very immediate concern for most of us; however, out of sheer curiosity, what are the conventions for their transliteration? At any rate, I wouldn't replace for example semi-colon with a fancy pitch mark for the font, since it seems to be frequently employed in modern Bengali texts as such, and is therefore a necessary character.
Madhava - Wed, 11 May 2005 05:21:11 +0530
With regards to Y, I've seen ˇ (y with double dot over) used for that, I believe that's the phonetic spelling (?). Any thoughts on that?
ananga - Wed, 11 May 2005 14:32:06 +0530











































a A i I u U
ा া ि ি ी ী ु ু ू ূ
093E 09BE 093F 09BF 0940 09C0 0941 09C1 0942 09C2
अ অ आ আ इ ই ई ঈ उ উ ऊ ঊ
0905 0985 0906 0986 0907 0987 0908 0988 0909 0989 090A 098A















































R e ai o au
ृ ৃ े ে ै ৈ ो ো ौ ৌ
0943 09C3 0947 09C7 0948 09C8 094B 09CB 094C 09CC
ऋ ঋ ए এ ऐ ঐ ओ ও औ ঔ
090B 098B 090F 098F 0910 0990 0913 0993 0914 0994



























~ M H
ँv ঁ ं ং ः ঃ
0901 0981 0902 0982 0903 0983
































ka kha ga gha Ga
क ক ख খ ग গ घ ঘ ङ ঙ
0915 0995 0916 0996 0917 0997 0918 0998 0919 0999

































c ch j jh J
च চ छ ছ ज জ झ ঝ ञ ঞ
091A 099A 091B 099B 091C 099C 091D 099D 091E 099E


























































T Th D Dh N
ट ট ठ ঠ ड ড ढ ঢ ण ণ
091F 099F 0920 09A0 0921 09A1 0922 09A2 0923 09A3
P Ph
ड़ ড় ढ़ ঢ়
095C 09DC 095D 09DD

































t th d dh n
त ত थ থ द দ ध ধ न ন
0924 09A4 0925 09A5 0926 09A6 0927 09A7 0928 09A8





























p ph b bh m
प প फ ফ ब ব भ ভ म ম
092A 09AA 092B 09AB 092C 09AC 092D 09AD 092E 09AE




















































y r v l
य য় र র व ব ल ল
092F 09DF 0930 09B0 0935 09AC 0932 09B2
Y
09AF




























z S s h
श শ ष ষ स স ह হ
0936 09B6 0937 09B7 0938 09B8 0939 09B9





























hasant avagraha
् ্ ऽ ঽ
094D 09CD 093D 09BD 0964 0965







[ Edit: Fixed glitches in the HTML that messed up the display. - Madhava ]
Madhava - Fri, 13 May 2005 03:17:55 +0530
I have a bit of a dead end here with the chandrabindu. Common words using it are tA&ra and tA&hAra. Especially with the latter, we're just badly out of space with regards to where it can be placed. It just doesn't fit there. Suggestions? (Accompanied with a visual example if possible.)

Here's one rather bizarre idea. (Samples of the two other changed characters included.)

[attachmentid=1549]
Attachment: Image
ananga - Fri, 13 May 2005 04:01:33 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ May 12 2005, 09:47 PM)
I have a bit of a dead end here with the chandrabindu. Common words using it are tA&ra and tA&hAra. Especially with the latter, we're just badly out of space with regards to where it can be placed. It just doesn't fit there. Suggestions? (Accompanied with a visual example if possible.)

Here's one rather bizarre idea. (Samples of the two other changed characters included.)

[attachmentid=1549]




the y in gauPiya is a normal y the ˇ (minus I am suggesting the leftmost dot) is for the ye which sounds like je eg. Ye jana mora kRSNa bhaje...
and Yakhana choTa chilAm etc. Yadi...

Thanks for tweaking my HTML. I tried to get the indian scripts larger but somehow that didn't work
Madhava - Fri, 13 May 2005 04:07:06 +0530
QUOTE(ananga)
the y in gauPiya is a normal y the ˇ (minus I am suggesting the leftmost dot) is for the ye which sounds like je eg. Ye jana mora kRSNa bhaje...
and Yakhana choTa chilAm etc. Yadi...

Thanks for tweaking my HTML. I tried to get the indian scripts larger but somehow that didn't work

Hmm...

য.য would thus be ˇaya correct? = ˇ | .য = y? So I'll just swap those two. And what, the left dot off, the right left where it is?

Regarding your table, you can't define the characteristics of table divisions (td) in the table row (tr), each division needs to be defined. The reason why your table went off was there was an extra tag there.