Google
Web         Gaudiya Discussions
Gaudiya Discussions Archive » DEVOTIONAL PRACTICES
Discussions specifically related with the various aspects of practice of bhakti-sadhana in Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

Techniques of japa - mental and spoken -



JD33 - Sun, 07 Nov 2004 04:11:55 +0530
It takes years of practicing 64 or more rounds each day, but eventually one can do a round in 2 minutes. or 64 rounds in a little over 2 hours - all of this with quality.
Talasiga - Sun, 07 Nov 2004 05:42:21 +0530
QUOTE(JD33 @ Nov 6 2004, 10:41 PM)
It takes years of practicing 64 or more rounds each day, but eventually one can do a round in 2 minutes.  or 64 rounds in a little over 2 hours - all of this with quality.



Quality is not an appendage. It is when you find yourself in Braj.
purifried - Sun, 07 Nov 2004 22:43:35 +0530
Here's something for ya... biggrin.gif

In case anyone is wondering whether or not they chant inattentively or rather would like to know if they really chant the whole mantra -- of course this is for those who chant out loud -- I remember when I first lived in the temple, my temple president was super into attentive japa, or rather was super into preaching it (we often reminded him that he chanted a few extra Ramas towards the end). wink.gif One thing he had us do was to record ourselves chanting. The first time I was suprised to hear that I actually wasn't chanting the whole mantra when I thought I was. I guess once you get into it and kind of forget about the recording going on, then you're back to your normal japa mode. Even more embarassing was when I actually started falling asleep while being recorded. blush.gif That would be super funny to be able to listen to now!

Anyway, this may be a fun exercise for people to try. Maybe not. And of course you have to chant out loud to do it. It may be a helpful assessment tool if you like. Have fun! wink.gif

Ys,
Madhava - Mon, 08 Nov 2004 01:37:13 +0530
I have to wonder, though, how much importance should be attached to this "extreme correct pronounciation" to begin with. One would think that what is within the mind is at the core of japa.
Keshava - Tue, 09 Nov 2004 10:02:10 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Nov 7 2004, 10:07 AM)
I have to wonder, though, how much importance should be attached to this "extreme correct pronounciation" to begin with. One would think that what is within the mind is at the core of japa.



Japa without pronunciation (even mental pronunciation) is simply dhyana.

I have no objection to this, however I think that this is not Gaudiya theology.

Do not Gaudiyas place emphasis on the actual name being chanted? This would presuppose that one actually has to chant it, meaning that chanting something else which is not it, by mispronouncing it, would not yield the same result.

If one were to say that it is simply the intent of the chanter and not the thing being chanted which makes the difference then that does not sound like Gaudiya theology to me.

Of course there are examples of devotees even Mahaprabhu Himself making inconprehensible sounds approximating chanting during deep ecstasy. But this is not what we are discussing here.

Madhava - Tue, 09 Nov 2004 19:23:28 +0530
QUOTE(Keshava @ Nov 9 2004, 05:32 AM)
Japa without pronunciation (even mental pronunciation) is simply dhyana.

I have no objection to this, however I think that this is not Gaudiya theology.

Do not Gaudiyas place emphasis on the actual name being chanted? This would presuppose that one actually has to chant it, meaning that chanting something else which is not it, by mispronouncing it, would not yield the same result.

If one were to say that it is simply the intent of the chanter and not the thing being chanted which makes the difference then that does not sound like Gaudiya theology to me.

Please refer to this post for several relevant verses that speak of mAnasika-japa, and it is indeed classified as japa, not dhyAna, though it is said to be dhyAna-sama. trividho japa-yajJaH syAt...

I would like to add that I did not speak of the "intent of the chanter" alone when I questioned the need for extreme accuracy in the pronounciation, rather I pointed to the importance of the mantra's pronounciation (if you will) in the mind. Deep mental focus on the mantra certainly isn't equivalent to just having an intent.

I have split these posts into a separate thread from the Copy & Paste area.
Keshava - Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:22:33 +0530
Thanks for the link to the quotes on manasika japa. I think that we are in agreement here. All I was trying to say is that mental japa is mental pronunciation ie going thorugh each letter, syllable, and word of a mantra in one's mind. If the image in one's mind is one of form of the deity or some pastime then one cannot be said to be performing mental japa, that is dhyana. Of course one might chant using the lips and tongue and yet meditate in the mind on the form of the deity or some pastime but that would not be mental japa.
Srijiva - Sat, 04 Dec 2004 04:18:09 +0530
Hari bol!

I am not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I had some thoughts on japa the other day...

I have noticed that I will have some material attachment that will motivate me to do devotional service from time to time.

So I was thinking after I chanted the other day that there wasn't any mixed motive in spending that two hours chanting. I mean, there really isn't any material benefit that motivates me to chant. Perhaps if I did it in the mountains and people saw me and "oh,that sadhu is austere, let me give him some donation", then perhaps there could be. Essentially it is the desire to purify my contaminated senses.

So as long as I can chant whole heartedly and not spaced out, perhaps these other material attachments will eventually subside, leaving there to be 'nothing to it, but to do it.'

Hare Krsna!
Neal
JD33 - Sat, 04 Dec 2004 05:55:29 +0530
SriJiv - yes its true - by doing Nam Japa with focus & love (as you are doing) desires drop away.
Madhava - Sun, 05 Dec 2004 11:54:12 +0530
Of course, those determined for fulfilling various mundane desires will ride any vehicle for their fulfilment. Some may even employ nama-japa towards such ends, thinking that if they will now chant properly, they will in the future be renown as great, advanced Vaishnavas. Such contamination of false prestige may be there. The inner idiot, as we once coined him, has endless ways of spoiling our sadhana. So let us remain vigilant and always seek to purify our inner being, refining our aspirations for bhakti-seva.
TarunGovindadas - Sun, 05 Dec 2004 16:07:32 +0530
yeah,
i know him very well,
the
inner idiot!

laugh.gif laugh.gif
brajamani - Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:09:32 +0530
QUOTE(purifried @ Nov 7 2004, 12:13 PM)
Here's something for ya...  biggrin.gif

In case anyone is wondering whether or not they chant inattentively or rather would like to know if they really chant the whole mantra -- of course this is for those who chant out loud -- I remember when I first lived in the temple, my temple president was super into attentive japa, or rather was super into preaching it (we often reminded him that he chanted a few extra Ramas towards the end). wink.gif  One thing he had us do was to record ourselves chanting. The first time I was suprised to hear that I actually wasn't chanting the whole mantra when I thought I was. I guess once you get into it and kind of forget about the recording going on, then you're back to your normal japa mode. Even more embarassing was when I actually started falling asleep while being recorded.  blush.gif That would be super funny to be able to listen to now!

Anyway, this may be a fun exercise for people to try. Maybe not. And of course you have to chant out loud to do it. It may be a helpful assessment tool if you like. Have fun!  wink.gif

Ys,




Haha, thats a funny story smile.gif
brajamani - Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:20:01 +0530
QUOTE(Madhava @ Nov 7 2004, 03:07 PM)
I have to wonder, though, how much importance should be attached to this "extreme correct pronounciation" to begin with. One would think that what is within the mind is at the core of japa.




I tend to agree with this statement. I`m willing to bet the "extreme correct pronounciation" ideal sprouted from a control issue. For example when in NV there was a 'Vaisnava Manual' floating around that even had diagrams of "how to dance in front of the deities"...I thought that was a little extreme myself tongue.gif.

Brajamani ohmy.gif

Gaurasundara - Sat, 30 Jul 2005 05:10:24 +0530
I have been wondering about the Meru bead, which is the slightly larger 109th bead that lets the chanter know about the beginning and end of the 'round'. It is said that when performing several rounds of japa, one must not cross over the Meru bead, but instead turn around the mala in your hands and do the next round 'backward' and so on. Why is it that the chanter should not cross the Meru bead?
brajamani - Mon, 01 Aug 2005 23:59:00 +0530
I thougt it was called the Vishnu bead?
Keshava - Thu, 04 Aug 2005 07:17:35 +0530
QUOTE(Gaurasundara @ Jul 29 2005, 01:40 PM)
I have been wondering about the Meru bead, which is the slightly larger 109th bead that lets the chanter know about the beginning and end of the 'round'. It is said that when performing several rounds of japa, one must not cross over the Meru bead, but instead turn around the mala in your hands and do the next round 'backward' and so on. Why is it that the chanter should not cross the Meru bead?



Meru bead, Visnu bead, I would have thought that Gaudiyas would call it the Krsna bead. biggrin.gif

This is a good question. Consider that when counting on the fingers the segments which are left out are referred to (at least in South India) as Meru. And the counting is considered pradaksina of Meru. But with a mala by changing direction at the end of a round one would by this idea be doing
a-pradaksina. So obviously there is some other conception. I always used to find this helpful if I forgot to pull down a counter bead. I would always start chanting odd number rounds moving from smalled to larger beads. So I knew when I came to the end of a round on large beads it was an odd number and when I came to the end of a round on small beads it was an even numbered round. Of course it's better to move a counter bead each time to keep count ultimately as if you go more than two rounds without doing this you will ose count.

I would also like to know if anyone knows any mention of not crossign the head bead and/or why one should reverse the direction at the end of the round.