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All varieties of devotional topics that don't fit under the other sections of the forums. However, devotionally relevant topics, please - there are other boards for other topics.

The misery of separation -



Kishalaya - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:38:07 +0530
QUOTE (kanupriya @ Aug 31 2004, 12:18 AM)
And as far as developing greater Ananda by imagining that Im currently separated from X, so the sense of being separated increases my desires to attain X, I have no idea how to bring about such a sense of separation, since I dont experience any such thing, so obviously the path that is called Raganuga Bhakti is not my path, since Id have no idea how to do it, nor reason, but if it works for anyone else, thats fine, but thats the question, does it work?

How interesting, sometimes we can find some meaningful truths from unlikely sources. Yep buddy! I also don't understand this "separation" crap. Its like saying, "Why should I help that miserable guy, even though I can. He is just expending His karma, so it would be better if I don't interfere." We should be going to God, and it just beats me as to how "separation" is the way to go. Yep, others can continue with their "selfless" service in this "Mannequin Land", I just wanna be with God wink.gif
Satyabhama - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:42:58 +0530
Since you mentioned "separation" I would just like to add a thought...

Is it separation that is most intense, or the moment separation becomes union?
Kishalaya - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:09:16 +0530
QUOTE (Satyabhama @ Aug 31 2004, 05:42 PM)
Since you mentioned "separation" I would just like to add a thought...

Is it separation that is most intense, or the moment separation becomes union?

Who the damn hell cares? At the end of the day, It's UNION that matters smile.gif
Satyabhama - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 18:44:50 +0530
Well spoken, dear. smile.gif

Jagat - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:06:32 +0530
QUOTE (Kishalaya @ Aug 31 2004, 06:08 AM)
I just wanna be with God wink.gif

But you're not. And yet God is as close as your jugular vein, as Mohammed said. This is called separation; it is the emotional form of achintya-bhedabheda, or paradox-in-emotion.
gopidust - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:25:36 +0530
crying.gif I personally don't have much feelings of separation from Krishna, but I feel sad when Radharani is in separation like in stories from the Krishna book.

Satyabhama I love your new pic it is so transcendental!

So I have already wanted to reunite Radha with Krishna now for a long time. I think that would be nice to do in the Spiritual World. I got those feelings just from reading the books. Things happen naturally sometimes.

Satyabhama in Krishna lila is Mother Jahnavi in Goura lila is it not?

Separation is more intense than union but there is union in seperation, the gopis saw Krishna dancing when they were together and discussing him I just heard recently.

I would like nothing better than to see what Radharani is feeling and then to be affected by that and automatically to be in the same mood. I heard the gopis don't even need to see Her, they just know Her mood.
Satyabhama - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:54:13 +0530
Well, according to me, Satyabhama is Smt. Vishnupriya in Gaura leela. Also Srimati Andal (alwar) and Bhudevi. Others may disagree, but for me anyway She is *certainly* Bhudevi!

As for separation, it may be more intense and thus somehow exalted. Ok, I suppose it should be appreciated, and from an intellectual standpoint I understand completely, however...

I curse separation with my whole heart, and I damn well don't want a drop of "higher rasas" or what have you. Damn separation to hell.

...er... *ahem*

And as for "union within separation," that is even better than simply "separation" but no way you could convince me that it is better than PURE union...

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that after being separated from Krishna for a long time, the moment Radhaji sees Him, that very moment would be more powerful than the previous separation. However, after union the following separation would be more intense than the previous one, and the union which follows *that* would be more intense than the previous union. Isn't that how it goes, folks? I dunno...

Wait a minute, what is the subject of this thread again? rolleyes.gif
Jagat - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:30:06 +0530
You've got it. No one said it was fun. And you're supposed to curse it with all your heart. I mean, what else can you do?

The problem is: This is it, baby. Ecstasy just mean "out of your mind."
Kishalaya - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:38:01 +0530
QUOTE (gopidust @ Aug 31 2004, 07:25 PM)
Separation is more intense than union but there is union in seperation,

That is for philosophers, not for me.
Madhava - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:42:47 +0530
QUOTE (Kishalaya @ Aug 31 2004, 12:08 PM)
I also don't understand this "separation" crap.

Let's discuss the issue, but let's not call things crap, OK? An appreciation of such a delicate thing as separation, even if not for your taste, ought to be respected.
Kishalaya - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:43:45 +0530
QUOTE (Jagat @ Aug 31 2004, 07:06 PM)
QUOTE (Kishalaya @ Aug 31 2004, 06:08 AM)
I just wanna be with God wink.gif

But you're not. And yet God is as close as your jugular vein, as Mohammed said. This is called separation; it is the emotional form of achintya-bhedabheda, or paradox-in-emotion.

But I should very well goddamn find the SHORTEST route first and quickly. All glories to selflessness, my obeisances (from a distance). Scheme, plot, do anything you can, by hook or by crook, reach God. And those who say, He hates you, better hear from His mouth than trust the envious rumor mongers.
Kishalaya - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:48:54 +0530
QUOTE (Madhava @ Aug 31 2004, 10:42 PM)
QUOTE (Kishalaya @ Aug 31 2004, 12:08 PM)
I also don't understand this "separation" crap.

Let's discuss the issue, but let's not call things crap, OK? An appreciation of such a delicate thing as separation, even if not for your taste, ought to be respected.

Oh! those are my personal feelings just spilling over an overburdened heart biggrin.gif Sorry ! (Ya! I am no raganuga)

And Thanks! (but no thanks) I don't wanna discuss that cause I ain't gonna be convinced.

I bet those who are already in union, you may have some interesting time convincing them about the "separation" option laugh.gif
Jagat - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:02:32 +0530
And well you should. After all, Radha probably calls separation "crap" most of the time, too. Only sometimes, when the pain subsides and she has the occasion to become reflective, she realizes that something sublime was going on--all her senses were so concentrated on Krishna that it really was like Krishna was there, only like a pillow over her face, or a crushing weight on her chest.

Actually Jiva Goswami says exactly what Kishalaya and Satyabhama are saying. The gopis would NEVER choose separation voluntarily. It is Yogamaya's doing, not theirs. Telling someone to worship in separation is like telling them to go hungry instead of eating.

The trouble is : Hunger happens. And eating is better when you are hungry. So let's not say, "Worship in separation" but rather, like Mother, "Work out, so that you have a good appetite at mealtime."
Madhava - Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:07:43 +0530
Oh yes, the idea of "let us aspire for separation" is truly odd. Let us go for sudUra-pravAsa. Let that Krishna be in Braja, and we'll go to Mongolia. We can give you siddha-praNAlI with nivAsa in Iceland. Much more rasik than those Varshana-wallas!
Satyabhama - Wed, 01 Sep 2004 01:19:33 +0530
QUOTE
it really was like Krishna was there, only like a pillow over her face, or a crushing weight on her chest.


--------------

You know this sounds exactly right.

Separation is there, ok. It's there dammit, and that's the way things are. But... you know, I do love the way (the original) Satyabhama complains when she feels neglected. Perhaps Krishna isn't even neglecting Her, but still She feels neglected, and She cries and screams, pleads and covets.

Rukmini also can't stand to be away from Krishna, but Satyabhama was kind enough to be highly vocal about Her greed for Her husband. Despite Her tantrums, Krishna didn't dump Her or ignore Her, but rather bore with Her and loved Her.

QUOTE
The trouble is : Hunger happens. And eating is better when you are hungry.


Ok, so thank you Yogamaya, for this leela of separation, and excuse me please mother when I say "I hate it I hate it I hate it!" tongue.gif

(And happy early birthday to Krishna, by the way)

Oh yes, and *aspiring* for separation? Well, I daresay I can't even imagine such a thing, but you know... to each his own... I guess... ?

Hmm... just thinking what that could be like... imagining the gopis driving Krishna out of Vrindavana with sticks... "Go! Get outta here! Kamsa is waiting to get clobbered... I don't wanna see Your face around here again, You're keeping us from feeling that really intense love for You... GET OUT!"
gopidust - Wed, 01 Sep 2004 04:58:06 +0530
crying.gif crying.gif crying.gif Haven't any of you read where Radharani scrapes her face into the ground so bad was her seperation? How she lies in bed and cannot take care of herself? This is the highest ecstacy to be able to care for her when she is in such a condition.
I do not care to enjoy with Krishna when She is feeling this way. Rather I would curse Krishna! I would do whatever Radharani wants and if Krishna will not go to Radharani then I don't know what to do?!
How can Krishna cause Radharani to suffer like that? Yes I am angry at Krishna. Yes I would like to make him suffer somehow for making Radharani suffer so much. How can he do it? Is it because of circumstances?
If so then I would like to make the arrangements to help bring him back to Radharani. I cannot stand to see her in such pain. But can I say such pain is the greatest pleasure? When Radharani is talking in madness to a bumblebee is she in madness, a type of ecstacy? Yes, the answer is yes.
gopidust - Wed, 01 Sep 2004 05:02:47 +0530
The gopis cursed Krishna's friend for taking Him away.
Krishna DID leave the gopis to go to Mathura.
He left them to enjoy with city girls.
I don't know if we are allowed to curse Krishna for hurting Radharani. All I know is how I feel. These are my feelings of seperation.
Satyabhama - Wed, 01 Sep 2004 06:46:51 +0530
Oh, don't you know how Krishna cries for Her? You have to know, gopidust, He also weeps uncontrollably. He also burns. He didn't leave "to enjoy with city girls." Actually He doesn't leave Her at any time in reality, but you know he appears to go, for the sake of leela... ok duty took Him away. He has to kill Kamsa, He has to preach Gita.

As far as Radha is concerned He only loves Radha (just like as far as Satyabhama is concerned He loves only Satyabhama, and when She weeps, Her maidservants will also comfort Her). So as far as you're concerned He loves only Radha. Don't worry, Gopidust. You know he also weeps... you would be amazed to hear it. There are descriptions in scriptures, I suggest you read them... His longing is so deep and desparate like Rani's... can you have any doubt that He loves Her above all else?


Satyabhama - Wed, 01 Sep 2004 07:03:23 +0530
And one more thing, Gopidust, when somebody like me who loves Satyabhama says that Krishna loves Radha, you should take it seriously. To tell you the truth, I like to see all Krishna's wives and lady-loves happy. But Gopidust, for you, just feel He loves Radha more than all the rest (don't say that in front of Bhaamaa, though, or She will cry like mad!). You can believe it coming from me.
Kishalaya - Wed, 01 Sep 2004 15:55:27 +0530
QUOTE (gopidust @ Sep 1 2004, 04:58 AM)
Rather I would curse Krishna! I would do whatever Radharani wants and if Krishna will not go to Radharani then I don't know what to do?!
How can Krishna cause Radharani to suffer like that? Yes I am angry at Krishna. Yes I would like to make him suffer somehow for making Radharani suffer so much. How can he do it?


sad.gif

It pains a lot of people to see the condition of Vishnuypriya when Gauranga took sannyaasa. His associates went with Him, but those who are so attached to Thakurani's feet are cursing Gauranga and His "bhakti". That is what caused Thakurani so much pain.
Satyabhama - Wed, 01 Sep 2004 17:21:16 +0530
QUOTE
It pains a lot of people to see the condition of Vishnuypriya when Gauranga took sannyaasa.


Yes it does. It pains... some people... to see any blessed one of those Ladies weeping...
gopidust - Thu, 02 Sep 2004 04:08:07 +0530
I'm sorry I said I would want to curse Krishna but I was so angry at him! Aaahhh!
Satyabhama - Thu, 02 Sep 2004 04:32:55 +0530
That's understandable, but you have to know how much He loves Her. He is wounded deeply when they are apart. He is not aloof, insensitive, emotionless... He is God, ok, but before Her He is just a little boy. His heart is soft and melting with love.
gopidust - Thu, 02 Sep 2004 21:57:15 +0530
Satyabhama who cares how Krishna feels. Not me. I really don't. I am always angry at him.
I only care about how Radharani feels. Even when they are together like the last time I saw them during a festival, I only watched Radharani and she looked relaxed.
When they are together I am still mad at him because he may do something to cause seperation. And when seperation is there I am still angry at him. Am I being offensive? Is it ok to be so angry at Krishna all of the time lately because He hurts Radharani sometimes or am I a demon?
Are we allowed to worship Radharani so much more so than Krishna? I do pray to Krishna sometimes when I am in distress and in need of help and so on.
Oh Krishna.....
Kishalaya - Fri, 03 Sep 2004 00:35:57 +0530
Some of Vishnupriya's sakhis are always angry at Goraa for having caused Her pain. Even though they get scolded by Vishnupriya Herself because of their attitude towards Gaurhari, they can't forsake their "anger" because they feel that in this manner Gaur will be kept "under control" smile.gif and this will prevent Him from leaving Vishnupriya.
Satyabhama - Fri, 03 Sep 2004 01:28:25 +0530
QUOTE
Am I being offensive? Is it ok to be so angry at Krishna all of the time lately because He hurts Radharani sometimes or am I a demon?


Yes, you can be angry at Krishna. No, you are not a demon.

QUOTE
Are we allowed to worship Radharani so much more so than Krishna?


Yes.
gopidust - Fri, 03 Sep 2004 03:09:08 +0530
biggrin.gif Jaya! Those are the answers I was looking for. Actually when I chant japa I am praying to Krishna too. I tried praying to Radharani exclusively but it was hard.
Satyabhama's current icon has Krishna under control too it seems. Who is that big blue gopi holding Krishna while he is playing his flute?
Satyabhama - Fri, 03 Sep 2004 03:11:28 +0530
haha, that's what it looks like, doesn't it? Role reversal wink.gif hehe

That is the art of Andhra Pradesh's most famous cartoonist: "Bapu." Radhaji has stolen Krishna's flute, and He won't let go of Her for a second!
Satyabhama - Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:35:40 +0530
he r main to prema dvn, mer dard na jne koya
sl para seja hamr, kisa bidha son hoya
gagana maNDala pai seja piy k, kisa bidha milana hoya
ghyala k gati ghyala jnai, k jina l hoya
jauhar k gati jauhar jnai, k jina jauhar hoya
dard k mr bana bana Dolm baida mil nahin koya
mr k prabhu pra miTaig jaba baida smvaliy hoya
Satyabhama - Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:54:19 +0530
citanandana ge ncng
nci nci piya rasika rijhm, prem jana ko jcng
prema prta k bndha ghnghr, srat k kachan kchng
loka loja kula k marjd, y maim eka na rkhng
piy ke palang j pauRhng, mr hari rang rcng

evakurvan - Sat, 19 Mar 2005 23:50:18 +0530
QUOTE
Telling someone to worship in separation is like telling them to go hungry instead of eating.

good point. just to add..

hari! hari! kobe mora hoibe sudina?
phala mula vrndavane, khabo diva avasane,
bhramibo hoiya udasina

"Hari! Hari! When will that blessed day be mine? When will I wander around in Vrndavana completely detached, eating only some fruits and roots at the end of the day?"

When one is separated from someone in the material world one feels just misery, only separation from Krsna is the pinnacle of bliss. How can someone who has never cried while saying "Krsna" know how blissful that is?

- ADB
Madanmohan das - Sun, 20 Mar 2005 01:38:12 +0530
Had to remove what I said here because it was rubbish, sorry blush.gif